Derek Karlavaegen

edited June 2012 in Discuss
This is more of an extension to this topic here but a little more specific.

Who would like to see a new guidebook by Derek Karlavaegen as a PDF or bonus item included with the boxed set of Telltale's new King's Quest game?

If anyone doesn't know who Derek is, he is an old explorer and wanderer who landed the Green Isles, nearly twenty years before KQ6. He wrote the Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles, the manual and pack-in copyright protection for KQ6. This is the thing I wonder if they should create for telltale's KQ to have the feel of the early KQ games that had such manuals, with stories, etc.

He was in his Mid 30s to 40s at the time of Guidebook, and somewhere in his 50 to 60s around the time of KQ6.

Karlavaegen.PNG

I have put together a very detailed biography of him on the KQ wiki (including everything there is to know about his history, personality, and interactions with other KQ characters, and others);

Derek Karlavaegen's biography

The short version (but do please read the long version) is he wrote the Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles, and decades later, went on to record the events of King's Quest 3, in an interview with Alexander. He moved into Manannan's house, a few weeks later, where he discovered the Eye Between the Worlds.

Prince Alexander's Own Story! Exclusive Interview

Eye Between the Worlds

The eye is a mechanical computer (perhaps built by Pope Sylvester or Manannan) that allowed him to send messages one way to 20th century Earth (he called it the Other World), in hopes that someone would discover them. The Eye was discovered in the bookshelves near Manannan's desk, and can be seen in the game, KQ3.

EBTW.png

Later he recorded the events of KQ5, after visiting and interviewing King Graham. He gave Alexander a copy of the Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles to help him learn about the kingdom before he got there (Alex lost the copy in the shipreck, but had memorized the Ancient Ones language and myths, allowing him to scale the cliffs, and make his way through the traps of the catacombs).

He was later invited to Alexander's wedding, and wrote the chronicle of KQ6 events to be placed in the archives of both kingdoms.

He is one of Alexander's closest friends (whom he respects and trusts deeply), and had been for a long time. He has spent much time hobnobing around in the royal courts of both kingdoms, and has deep respect for King Graham as well.
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Comments

  • edited June 2012
    Derek Kavagaflookagaveen or whatever is a lame creation of Peter Spear. Screw that guy.


    Bt
  • edited June 2012
    Screw Derek? Screw Peter Spear? You'll have to screw Jane Jensen and eluki bes shahar, too! As well as John Shroades and Mark Empey.

    *Guidebook Writer: Jane Jensen
    *Guidebook Illustration: John Shroades
    *Guidebook Designer: Mark Empey

    On second thought...

    BTW, you didn't just screw Derek Karlavaegen... You probably had Mordack burn down the house around him in Infamous Adventures's KQ3 ;) Considering based on the timing in your game for when Mordack burned the place down, and the timing of when Derek moved into the house, Derek would have already been living there!

    Derek Karlavaegen is the 'writer' of the Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles, a packin with KQ6. Partially to add background to the game, and to also act as a form of copy protection.

    Derek Karlavaegen is even mentioned in the KQ6 Amiga version, in-game! The comment is in the files of the PC version as well. But not accessible!

    Background

    Derek Karlavaegen was originally an inhabitant of the green hills of Daventry. Many years ago, when Derek Karlavaegen was in his youth with little need for a razor, and a determination to see the world and all its myriad wonders and phantasmagoria. He began wandering, astride, afoot, and afloat; he discovered all he wished and more. He discovered a need and liking to record all he met, saw and heard. It was then he also discovered others would pay, to experience through his writings, that which he experienced without the inconveniece of seasickness, biting bugs, hostile witches and enchanters, or bandits. For most, that way is more easy, more safe, than living through those things for themselves. He used what he earned to travel more, to experience more, and to write more.[4]

    [edit] Shipwrecked in the Green Isles

    One year, after Derek had traveled from Tamir, he took passage on a ship, the Round About bound east from from Port Bruce in Llewdor, his destination was Sovereignty of Serenia. On the second week out they encountered a terrible electrical storm. The ship became lost and off course. A month later, as Derek lay in a fitful sleep on his bunk - throat parched and skin stretched from the scant provisions allotted all hands from the near-empty hold below he heard the cry on deck "Land Ho!" Startled from his sleep and exhilarated with hope, he sprang to the deck. The sky had cleared and its blue seemed a hue he had never seen before. He could see a small body of land that was dimly visible. Yet within the hour, the curse upon our ship took its final vengeance. The the sea came alive and swirled around the ship. Currents and whirlpools materialized and sucked at the beaten planks of the ship - turning her first one way and then another! Derek was thrown against the deck and rolled uncontrollably against the cables and the lifeboats. The last thing he heard before his head was struck and blackness descended was the mate screaming "She's going Down!!!"[5] All had perished except Derek Karlavaegen, and he barely.[6]

    Out of sheer luck, Derek awoke the following morning, not among the bones at the bottom of the sea, but on a beach. Of the crew and passengers of the good ship, there was not a trace.[7] The sea had washed all of Derek's remaining youth out of him. Like an old beaten horse to lame to pull a load, he limped towards a distant village, only to collapse. [8] Derek had found the Land of the Green Isles, a place he had thought didn't exist. The Green Isles welcomed him warmly, fed, clothes, and healed his body. The women helped heal his fevered mind and shipwrecked soul. Once strong and well he was given the freedom to wander through as many islands and cultures as he wanted, and freedom to speak to all he might fancy.[9]

    [edit] Exploring the Islands

    At first he explored the village, where he was staying. Though little of his survived the shipwreck, the few trinkets that he had on his person or managed to salvage from the shore were deemed unusual enough in that distant realm to obtain a few necessities. He also found the villagers eager too share what they had in return for honest work, so he had survived quite comfortably there.[10] Then he explored the docks, where he met the Ferryman, and his young son, Hassan.[11][12]

    Despite his status as a stranger Derek was granted a visit with the reigning king and queen of the Green Isles, Caliphim and Allaria. He met the king and queen in the castle's throne room. As a citizen of the larger, more dangerous world, it made him feel a little nervous and honor bound not to betray such trust in him. He met the king and queen in the castle's throne room. The throne room is a vast hall more ornate then anything his poor eyes had ever seen. Standing before the two thrones in that cavern of gold, he felt as though he stood before fabled Olympus itself. Yet, raising his eyes up slowly to those noble faces, he saw nothing of judgment in their eyes, nothing of disdain, indeed, their faces were full of kindness, welcome and kindness. Having met the royal couple and recovered sufficently from his ordeal at sea, he began to feel right curious about the other islands in the kingdom, and so he put his itching feet in the care of the jolly ferryman.

    Derek travelled around the islands, first exploring the Isle of Wonder. Then he traveled to the Isle of Sacred Mountain. Two of the greeters met him at the base of the Cliffs of Logic. Gently, they took his arms and flew him upwards. He was flown to the Winged Ones city. He was completely dependent on the greeters to travel about the city as there are no connections between the edifice towers of the city. His reception with the Winged Ones was on the surface extremely polite, but the formal words of welcome did not ring true. They held a disdain for common humanity, a haughtiness that made them irksome to Derek. He learned of the Oracle, but was not allowed to meet her. While on the Island he found himself fascinated by the Ancient Ones. He researched the race from what he could get from the closed-mouthed Winged Ones, and later from writings of scholars on the Isle of the Crown. He spent some time studying the language and culture of the Ancient Ones. He examined the ancient culture's artifacts including the Cliffs of Logic which had not been solved by any alive at the time, and the the gates to the catacombs which were inaccessible to visitors at the time as a minitaur had taken up residence inside some years before. Soon he continued his exploration to the Isle of the Beast, but he did not see much of the place since obstacles made it impossible to travel far inland. He learned what he could of its history from others.

    Through long nights spent before the fire with his companions on the Isle of the Crown, he learned of the Green Islanders myths and legends. He learned of the Isle of Mysts, the Edge of the World, the Realm of the Dead, and even of genies. He had been well treated on the islands and had become rich in friends, knowledge and in countless other blessings.[13] Often, and freely, he was granted audience with the land's king and queen, Caliphim and Allaria. They spoke much of the Green Isles, and he of the rest of the Daventry.[14]

    [edit] Return to Serenia

    In the evenings, he began composing a guidebook to their lands, refining it during the months of his stay.[15] Though he found his spirit forlorn at times with his inability to travel on, though his feet had itched less there than anywhere else in the wide world (for it had stolen his heart). Still on occasion, he found his mind roving back to the green hills of Daventry. He hoped, if his spirit at least was allowed to roam free, he would see them again.[16] He continued to feel melancholy for the places and people, he knew well, but resigned to spend his life hidden away from them, never to return home again. Although some of his mood, he put down onto paper, to admit the truth of his bitter feelings; his intention was to present a copy of his finished work to the king and queen in appreciation for all they and their people had done for him. He could not hide his longings from them.[17]

    When at last one evening after an especially fine meal and a goblet of rich, red wine, he finally proffered his gift to them, their eyes saddened and they looked away from him. After a moment King Caliphim warmly thanked him for the slim volume and walked with him into a garden. There, under a bronze moon, they asked him a great favor. His realm, he said, remained a legend to the rest of the world, and he, his queen, and his people, wished it to remain so. Too honorable to compell him, either by force or harangue, to release his sole other copy to him, he simply stated that if others saw his book and knew the location of the isles, their peace and harmony would be disrupted forever. The Green Isles had chosen to live apart from the greater world; to learn to know each other, and to learn from each other also. Perhaps the future would bring their course to join with that of others, but for then they only wished only their peace and privacy. Both he and Allaria prayed much for a child, and they wanted her to know the Green Isles as they had. Only if it became her wish, someday the children of Daventry, and their parents, would walk the islands. But until then their resolve was firm[18] And so it went, Derek assured the king and queen that he would retain his own slim copy as a keepsake of his time in their realm and guard it closely. He promised further that, when needed, he would do as he could to point attention away from the legendary Land of the Green Isles.

    The two hugged him warmly, as if he were royality the same as they, and then summoned their ancient court sorcerer to attend them. It was their final gift to them. Derek bid Caliphim and Allaria a long and happy life, and wished the same for all their subjects and the daughter they hoped for. A spell was cast, and he awoke in a bower not far from the town of Serenia. Nearly a year after he begun his journey, he finally arived at his destination.[19]

    Some time later, Derek returned to the green hills of Daventry, his homeland, that he loved.

    [edit] Friendship with the Royal Family of Daventry

    Almost two decades passed... Although its not clear when they first met, for some years it had been Derek Karlavaegen's fortune to be associated with the Royal House of Daventry; King Graham, Queen Valanice, and their children the princess Rosella and Prince Alexander. he had in fact known Prince Alexander almost from the moment of his return to the people of the Daventry from years of captivity in the house of the evil sorcerer Manannann. Derek was among the family and friends who held the Prince dear. Among them, Derek was proud to have Alexander hold him as his friend.[20]

    Shortly after Alexander's return from Llewdor, and Rosella rescuing her father, Derek caught up with Prince Alexander as he relaxed in Castle Daventry the home he had never known to conduct an interview. Their interview was conducted over several days and was interupted frequently by the queen's reports on the king's improving physical condition, and by their spontaneous hugs and tears. At these times of family emotion, Derek would withdraw discreetly; as some emotions demanded their privacy.[21] As Alexander spoke to him, the story held him with its intensity. He edited the princes words somewhat for brevity and style.

    Not long after the interview, a few months after Alexander's escape,[22][23][24]while the rebuilding of Daventry was going on[25], Derek Karlavaegen travelled to Llewdor in order to get a better understanding of what the brave youth had been through. It was for that reason that he arrived at Manannan's abandoned house. The place was totally deserted, He found no evidence of the cat wizard. He found the house in good repair, but no person or animal was anyplace near, and he found no remains of dead animals (apparently even the chickens had escaped). Derek resolved to spend some days there, to use it as a base for his explorations around Llewdor. During the night he took advantage of Manannan's large library, looking closely through his books on magic and magical lore. The days stretched into weeks, and still no one came to claim the large house with its well-stocked underground laboratory.[26]

    Inside the house, Derek discovered the Eye Between the Worlds, on one of the shelves in Manannan's library. Derek Karlavaegen began to send messages and documents from the universe of Daventry to the Other World to the author Peter Spear.[27] The court documents included many of his own written works as well as a few articles written by Daventry's stuffy old court chronicler, minister Gerwain, Alexander (A Magical Primer), Valanice, as well as other bits of information he pulled from articles, and his own research, interviews, and his own handdrawn maps of the period. Derek decided to give to his, unknown friend (Derek didn't know who he was in cantact with) in the Other World, a quick tour of the world of Daventry with his own words. He sent some of his own crude maps along with his communication to further illustrate his world--what there was of it.[28] He also included a copy of Ten Days in Tamir---Vacation in Paradise and Fragments from The Sorcery of Old by unknown authors.

    Derek had to be wary of the thugs and desperados that infect the forest of Llewdor. They still hid in their treehouse, from which they preyed on travelers.[29] He began to start calling them the Brat Catpack. Dearing this time Alexander had given Derek some gold to give to the Bear family as payments for the prince's deeds (robbing them). Upon hearing the story of the prince's trials and adventures, they forgave him, and gladly took the offered gold.[30]

    A little over a year later, Derek Karlavaegen was invited by King Graham and his family to spend some time at the refurbished Castle Daventry with them, a few moons after their ordeals with the evil Wizard Mordack. They asked him to write and record, for all who might read, the quest of the King of Daventry to save his family and his castle.[31] It was around this time that Cedric also visited the Wizard Crispin to get his side of the story as well. He also obtained some information from Alexander, that the prince had received from secret communications with Cassima, which concerned her time living with Mordack in his castle. He also pulled together as much information he could find on Serenia, and surrounding islands. Returning to his home in Llewdor, he uploaded the information to the Eye, along with new updated maps.

    [edit] Return to the Green Isles

    Keeping his longtime promise to the king and queen of the Green Isles, Derek was forced to lie a few times in order to protect the truth of things. He at times claimed he never knew of Land of the Green Isles, said they never existed, and that he had thought it was a myth. He kept up this charade even after learning about Cassima. When he drew up maps of the world and sent them to people in Daventry and in the Other World, he would either leave it off the map entirely or put in it the wrong location so as to protect it from people who might try to visit it.

    It wasn't until Alexander came to him in earnest about going after Cassima that he finally admitted it was real and gave Alexander its location. Alexander came to Derek Karlavaegens home (the house of the magician Manannan) to seek his help. While his ship was being prepared he had come to see if Derek had known anything about the land which was going. It was his great joy to be able to be of greater aid than perhaps Alexander had anticipated. For he gave Alexander his personal copy of the Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles, of which only a small edition had been printed, but out of respect to the wishes of the Crown, the book had never been offered for sale or perusal. He felt a small glow of pride that at last his words would at last be read (and would ultimately save Alexander's life).[32]

    Several months passed, Derek and others heard no word of Alexander. The waiting preyed on Derek and the Royal Family. But through all that long wait, no matter the dire warnings of the doom-sayers who were certain the prince was lost forever, Derek and those who knew Alexander never despaired. At last their faith was rewarded. On momentous day, Derek had gathered with the Royal Family in Daventry for an unknown cause, when news came that Alexander was alive and well. With the genie Shamir's help Alexander's family was brought to Daventry, and at his prince's request, Derek too had been asked to become part of the celebration.[33] He was given a room in the Castle of the Crown to stay, and given access to the castles libraries and archives. A few days before the wedding, Alexander came privately to him in the room he occuplied in the Palace of the Crown, tasking him write the chronicle of the events of Alexander's adventure before the celbration commenced to be put into the records of both kingdoms. Alexander left for him on his table vellum sheets with his scribbled notes. They discussed the story, lifting the first sheet of vellum and quickly scanned the crossed-out and written-over lines. Derek read over the notes, and admitted candidly that they needed a little work. Derek's hands itched to take hold of the threads of the Alexander's strange story and weave it into a strong and colorful shape. He promised Alexander that the chronicle would be ready to enter the royal archives on his wedding day. He began writing on the eve of the wedding, burning much lamp oil through the night. Derek made sure to include all of what Alexander felt, only ommiting what was was not known to him at the time (information was contained in other scrolls). He reconstructed events the best he could, drawing on the extensive library in the castle, and his own knowledge of the Land of the Green Isles.[34] The next morning finishing the chronicle, keeping his word, Derek Karlavaegen was summoned to Alexander and Cassima's wedding.[35] He handed the pages into the Royal Archivist of the Isle of the Crown, so that copies could be made, and then headed to the wedding.[36]

    As all the folk of Daventry, and the people and creatures of the Land of the Green Isles, still rejoiced and celebrated the joining of Prince Alexander and Princess Cassima, Derek bowed his head and apologized to those he had lied to about the existence to the islands in the past. The shame he held for having to lie, and also having had to breaking the trust to the former king and queen of the land. He wrote a letter, his "A Confession and Apologia" to the readers of both the Times of Daventry and Daventry People, in which he begged forgiveness to anyone he may have wronged. This he sent along with a copy of the chronicle for all to read, as well as his final updated maps.[37]

    [edit] Final communication

    Not long after, Derek came across a lengthy narration, more a romance than anything else, which was wildy popular among the readers of popular gossiping and literary trifles. It was an anonymous telling of a secret story concerning the queen and princess of Daventry and the dangers they faced during a kidnapping of Rosella by the false king of the trolls and her subsequent rescue. The story also relates that the princess was considering marriage to a prince who had spent his entire life, with the exception but a few days, ensorcelled into something other than himself, never knowing his true nature or identity.

    Derek was cautiously skeptical about the veracity of the tale, thinking it more fancy than fact. More fiction than history as he knew it. Although Derek had been privileged to be close to King Alexander, his parents, and sister Rosella, he heard nothing of a possible marriage. Nothing for the princess. Nothing from her family. Nothing from their words, looks or the language of their bodies. He believed rumor or fabrication was all that was pos
  • edited June 2012
    I second all the screwing!
  • edited June 2012
    The world would be a better place if there was more screwing?
  • edited June 2012
    ktmzk.jpg
  • edited June 2012
    screwball.jpg
  • edited June 2012
    Hahaha....

    In all seriousness, I don't consider Derek Kavalagenan (or whatever) to be any real part of King's Quest. Just some peripheral whimsy.


    Bt
  • edited June 2012
    Hahaha....

    In all seriousness, I don't consider Derek Kavalagenan (or whatever) to be any real part of King's Quest. Just some peripheral whimsy.


    Bt

    Why?
  • edited June 2012
    Great, one of those so-called "KQ fans", that ignore even the manuals to the games! And apparently KQ6 as well :D.

    ;)...

    Almost as annoying as the so-called "KQ fans" that consider the fan games as 'canon', and ignore the official series...

    I see Derek as no different than Gerwain in KQ2 manual (a character who isn't seen in the game), or how they gave Hagatha more importance in KQ2 manual as well. Not to mention Edward's wife in KQ1, or Dahlia, heh.
  • edited June 2012
    Hahaha....

    In all seriousness, I don't consider Derek Kavalagenan (or whatever) to be any real part of King's Quest. Just some peripheral whimsy.


    Bt

    Is it because the books weren't written by Roberta Williams or Jensen?
  • edited June 2012
    Probably because he has no bearing on the actual games whatsoever.
  • edited June 2012
    Getting radical. First Roberta's involvement in KQ is questioned/George Lucas-ized (IE that she had nothing to do with the series after II), now the KQ Companion is repudiated. Interesting.
  • edited June 2012
    The King's Quest Companion is an official guide created in part through the help and input by many Sierra employees, and as such referenced by some of the later material produced by Sierra.

    Roberta Williams is acknowledge for being of help in writing the books.<ref>KQC1E, pg</ref> According to Peter Spear, he would call Roberta Williams in order to develop chapters for the book. If she wasn't around or was too busy, he would contact other colleagues working on the games including Jane Jensen.<ref>KQC3E, 233</ref> The books were officially endorsed by Roberta Williams and she believed it brought the games to life in an exciting new way. She said it added another fascinating dimension to the entire King's Quest experience. She felt it was a pleasure to read, and a must have for anyone wanting to explore the series in greater depth and detail.<ref>"The King's Quest Companion is an interesting blend of fiction and helpful information for playing my games. Anyone interested in reading the story behind King's Quest or who just needs to be 'unstuck' while playing the game will find this book invaluable."-Roberta Williams, 1st Edition back cover</ref><ref>"...a wonderful blend of fact and fiction that brings my games to life in an exciting new way. It add's another fascinating dimension to the entire King's Quest experience. It is truly a pleasure to read and a must have for anyone hoping to explore the series in greater depth and detail."-Roberta Williams, 3rd Edition back cover</ref> She provided Peter Spear with encouragement, support, and access to work in progress<ref>KQC2E, KQC3E, Acknowledgements</ref>.

    Ken Williams (the former owner of Sierra On-line) supported the book from day one. He and his brother John Willams were extremely helpful and supportive of the book through the years, and without their support the book might not have existed. Peter Spear worked directly with Jane Jensen while editing and writing material for KQ6 portions (the main novelization was written by the professional novelist eluki bes shahar), and he worked with Lorelei Shannon on the material published in the 4th Edition and King's Quest VII: Authorized Guide. Other people at Sierra that assisted with Peter Spear in developing the book through the years include Bill Davis, Dennis Jonathan, Kirk Green, Anita Greene, Liz Jacobs, Mark Siebart, Marc Hudgins, Jonk Meek, Dan Rogers, Jerry Bowerman, and Joe Escalle.

    The author directly worked with designers and the game publisher to receive behind the scenes information, and influenced material in the games (About King's Quest I-V), the manuals and even other official Hint Books on occasion (see KQ6 and KQ7 hintbooks by Lorelei Shannon, KQ5 Manual (computer and NES versions), the Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles, and King's Questions (a computer game), and other material in the King's Quest Collection (15th Anniversery Collector's Edition)) (The Royal Scribe). Sierra's Interaction Magazine, and King's Quest Collection reprinted portions of the book on occasion to advertise them, give background story to the King's Quest World, and give hints to players (Sierra Magazine, Autumn 1989, Interaction, Fall 1994). The former article was included in the Inside the Chest archive included in several editions of the King's Quest Collection.

    It's interesting to note, that what started out as a brief interview with John Williams in 1984, and later an interview with Roberta Williams about KQ back in 1988, and another in 1989 created a long term friendship between Peter Spear and Williamses. It was Ken Williams with Roberta apparently that came up with the suggestion that Peter Spear be brought in the first place to write the books.
  • edited June 2012
    Getting radical. First Roberta's involvement in KQ is questioned/George Lucas-ized (IE that she had nothing to do with the series after II), now the KQ Companion is repudiated. Interesting.
    He didn't say that Derek and the KQ Companion are not valid (nor did I). He said Derek's inclusion in the franchise is whimsy.
  • edited June 2012
    Ironic, considering that almost everything included in KQ is for purpose of whimsy... It is made up of a hodgepodge of random fairy tales, and myths thrown into a blender, don't you know?
    To those who may someday follow in my footsteps, I say this; Be kind to this gentle land, be open-hearted to her whimsy and protect her, if you can, from the harsh winds which might wish to blow in from the sea to steal her soul. She is unlike any place I have ever seen and she has stolen my heart.-Derek Karlavaegen, Guidebook to the Land of Green Isles, Jane Jensen, pg

    Derek Karlavaegen btw, is style of such works as Dracula (in which different characters, or newspaper clippings tell different parts of the story), and put together and edited by fictional character.

    Or Eriol/AElfwine, a British Saxon who was part of the original cover stories of Tolkien's Middle-Earth legenderium, as a kind of visitor to early versions of Middle-Earth who recorded what he saw, and then took it back England to tell others.
    http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/%C3%86lfwine

    The released Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, and Adventures of Tom Bombadil modified this to be various writers (mainly hobbits, but perhaps others including input from the elves) adding to the Red Book of Westmarch, which was a tome of history and legends and poetry of the world.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_of_Westmarch

    There is also a sense that its in the style of the Pendragon Cycle by Stephen Lawhead as well, where each chapter was written by another character, from their perspective.

    It's actually a classic literary device, for a 2nd Person narrative.
  • edited June 2012
    Chyron8472 wrote: »
    He didn't say that Derek and the KQ Companion are not valid (nor did I). He said Derek's inclusion in the franchise is whimsy.

    Bingo.


    The eye to the other world? Where he talks directly to Peter Spear? That's Spear writing himself into the games.

    The games are the games. Derek Wahtshisnutts is just a bit of outside fun, but he has no bearing on the games what-so-ever.

    I don't consider the fan-games part of canon, either, just so we're clear. The whole character of Derek K. is just badly written fan-fiction that got sanctioned, and the KQ Companion, as lovely as it is, when it was produced was just another product to generate more KQ income.

    When it comes to King's Quest, I pay attention to the games, and not the periphery. I don't consider Kingdom of Sorrow, See No Weevil or The Floating Castle to have any bearing on the games, either.

    I don't need all kinds of information, back stories or nunsuch to let me enjoy the games. Some people dig it; I never give it a thought when I'm playing.


    Bt
  • edited June 2012
    The eye to the other world? Where he talks directly to Peter Spear? That's Spear writing himself into the games.

    The games are the games. Derek Wahtshisnutts is just a bit of outside fun, but he has no bearing on the games what-so-ever.

    You obviously haven't played KQ6...

    Ferryman (KQ6 script): "The island's currents keep us pretty isolated. I can only recall three visitors in my lifetime. When I was a boy a wanderer came, Alhazred himself arrived many years ago, and now you. We have almost no contact with the outside world, but we're content with our little kingdom. At least, we always were in the past."

    Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles

    Foreward

    Herein lies the account of my travels in that mysterious kingdom known as the Land of the Green Isles. Lest this record be put down to the fevered imagination of a madman or the fiction of a notorious liar, let me assure you, dear Reader, that the Land of the Green Isles does indeed exist. One can hear the name of the Land whispered in roadside inns off dusty roads from the hills of Daventry to the sea of Tamir - especially on nights when the wind howls and the rain plays havoc on the window panes. The storytellers inevitably take on that same tone of voice they use when speaking of the Fairy Kingdom. I cannot vouch for the Fairy Kingdom since I have yet to get a leprechaun in a position of compromise, yet, the Land of the Green Isles... Ah...that is a place where the feet of a man can find solid ground and his eyes feast on such wonders!



    My tale begins with a broken compass. I had taken passage on a ship bound east from Llewdor. Our destination was Serenia, yet in the second week out we encountered a terrible electrical storm. Waves crashed upon the deck of our little ship, the Round About, and lightning struck the sea all around her. At one point it even struck our secondary mast and we were saved from a fiery death only by the lashing rain which quickly put out the fire. We felt sure that we were all dead men, yet on we bailed and strove throughout the night. After long hours of terrifying labour, we found ourselves still afloat on the other side of the storm. At first light, the damage seemed minimal despite the lightning that had struck the ship, but by sunset the Captain was forced to announce that the instruments of navigation had been magnetized by the storm - the compass spoke east, yet the sun sank low over the right of our prow.
    The Captain did his best to sail by older methods, by the sun and the stars. He assured the voyagers that there was nothing to fear. Yet we seemed cursed, for a dense cloud cover settled over the sky far into the horizon - and stayed. The Round About sailed like a blind man groping in a vast unfamiliar room.

    After a week, the Captain had to admit that we had missed out destination. There was no land to be seen anywhere. It was as if the storm had been another flood that had wiped civilization from the face of the Earth. With naught else to do we sailed on, by now so lost that turning around seemed futile. Who was to say that we were not turned around already?

    A month later, I lay in a fitful sleep on my bunk - throat parched and skin stretched from the scant provisions allotted all hands from the near-empty hold below - when I heard the cry on deck "Land Ho!" Startled from my sleep and exhilarated with hope, I sprang to the deck. The sky had cleared and its blue seemed a hue I had never seen. A sailor was wildly pointing off the prow where the bright green of a small body of land was dimly visible. The Round About responded as though leaping from the sea towards that remote shore.

    Yet within the hour, the curse upon our ship took its final vengeance. As though enraged to see us within view of escape, the sea came alive and swirled around us. Currents and whirlpools materialized and sucked at the beaten planks of the ship - turning her first one way and then another! I was thrown against the deck and rolled uncontrollably against the cables and the lifeboats. The last thing I heard before my head was struck and blackness descended was the mate screaming "She's going Down!!!"

    Who can judge providence? I am not a hero, I am a wanderer - neither as strong nor as brave as the Captain] of the good ship. Yet with no effort on my part - none greater, in any event, than the skill of getting myself knocked on the head - I awoke the following morning, not among the bones at the bottom of the sea, but on a beach. Of the crew and passengers of the good ship, there was not a trace.

    Perhaps I was chosen for some destiny here. Perhaps the sea simply found me too sour an old dog for the swallowing. In any case, that is the tale of how I found the Land of the Green Isles, or should I say, how it found me. Being but a poor traveller with feet that itch and a spirit that cannot rest, I have naught to leave this world but a record of the things these eyes have seen. Being not nearly as clever as a ballader, I set this down in humble prose.

    May this account someday find its way back to the land of my youth, though I fear I myself shall die on this distant shore.
    Derek Karlavaegen
    [edit] PART I The Land of the Green Isles





    The land of the Green Isles is an ancient kingdom ruled by a royal family designated simply as the "Crown". Its location so far from the rest of the known world, combined with the dangers of the surrounding sea, have effectively isolated it from the influence of other lands. This small kingdom might as well exist on a distant star as on the other side of an inhospitable sea.

    Because of this isolation, the citizens of the kingdom have a unique flavour and a quaint naivete. If one asks about the history of the Land, they are eager to speak. Yet of true answers, little can be found. They can recite the names of the holders of the Crown spanning back hundreds if years, can speak each dwelling's origin, of practically every citizen's lineage yet when I asked how the kingdom began, bewilderment is the response. "The kingdom has always been." they say, "There has always been a royal family." It is as if this place has existed, unaltered since the dawn of time.

    But there is some basis for a different picture: that these islands have actually held a succession of kingdoms, each bleeding into the next, new civilizations building on ruins scarcely cold. I base this opinion on the traces and legends of an ancient civilization to be found on one of the islands--but more of that later.

    The kingdom as it stands today, has remained relatively unchanged for hundreds of years. Fours islands make up the bulk of the Land. The Isle of the Crown is the centre of the kingdom. There on a magnificent rise stands the Castle of the Crown, the seat of the royal family of the kingdom and the heart of the Land. A village and docks comprise the rest of the island and run most of the kingdom's daily commerce, such as it is.

    Across a short distance of sea is the Isle of Wonder, an aptly-named place of sheer delight ruled by a pair of rival queens who are, despite their own internal strife, unalterably loyal to the Crown.

    The Isle of the Beast is the least hospitable of the islands. Seemingly deserted, I did not see much of the place since obstacles made it impossible to travel far inland. Nevertheless, the place has its own history and is listed among the kingdom's holdings.

    The fourth island is the Isle of the Sacred Mountain, so called for the soaring peak that rises from the base of the island into the clouds, and around which that community--both literally and philosophically--is built. The Isle of the Sacred Mountain has its own rulers who are also subservient to the Crown.

    A more dissimilar set cultures can scarce be imagined than those on these four islands, yet they seem to exist in harmony and function as a whole. The uniting factor is the Crown, which maintains loyalty both by means of its undisputed heritage as the seat of all government and by the grace of its goodly royal family.

    Peace has reigned for centuries in this idyllic kingdom and seems likely to continue. That is, as long as the Land remains hidden from the evil that we know exists in the world. Though I am a stranger here, I hope not to influence this place overly much. Who would wish to change such a paradise?

    [edit] PART II The Isle of the Crown

    Of the four islands, the Isle of the Crown is the one which will seem the most conventional to travellers from distant lands. It is largely inhabited by members of the human race, men and women of pleasant disposition and generous hospitality. As stated earlier, the Isle of the Crown is comprised of the Castle of the Crown, a quaint village, and the docks from which travel among the islands is commenced.

    [edit] The Village




    The village on the Isle of the Crown is a small one. Its stucco walls gleam in the hot sun, its dirt paths are clean and well-maintained, its vegetation is lush. The shop merchants are friendly and seem to delight in unusual trades, Though little of mine survived the shipwreck, the few trinkets that I'd had on my person or managed to salvage from the shore were deemed unusual enough in that distant realm to obtain a few necessities. I also found the villagers eager too share what they had in return for honest work, so I have survived quite comfortably here.

    Village life is one of cheerful routine. The villagers rise at first light to do their chores before the tropical sun reaches its peak. Then a light midday meal is served. The bulk of the afternoon is reserved for indoor activities:

    Reading and scholastics for the younger population and naps for their elders. Everyone seems to prize this quiet time. When the sun goes down, communal activities are frequent. If there are no weddings or other festivities (I must admit that I am quite fond of these local celebrations), the families often gather informally for a plain but plentiful supper, music, and conversation.

    Though most families are modest, none are in want. Servants are used in the more affluent households, but most of the citizens cheerfully rely on their own strong hands for the work of daily life. What serving class exists is generally well-treated, though even in this gentle civilization, I did note a few exceptions.

    [edit] The Docks





    Beyond the village lie the docks, a place of bustle and excitement, Even the humblest citizen of the Isle of the Crown frequently enjoys visiting the other islands in the kingdom. In return, it is not uncommon to see all manner of strange creatures frequenting the village shops from the kingdom`s other islands.

    All travel between the Islands is focused at the docks and, indeed at a single vessel, That vessel is simply called "the Ferry" and it is a pleasant enough little ship, well- maintained as befits its value to the kingdom. The ferryman is a jolly fellow, patient even with the youngest of his passengers. His young son helps manage the vessel and helps keep her shipshape.

    The story of the ferry is an interesting one, particularly if you recall the fate of my own ship. The islands, it seems, have always been surrounded by terrible eddies and currents that make seagoing nearly impossible. The family that runs the ferry has done so for generations, each father passing on to his son the secret of the tricky navigation. Many believe that the ferryman`s family line has an uncanny instinct for the sea around the isles. It is said that they sail " by the blood in their veins". One thing is certain: I would not venture to sail a ship in these waters, so whatever the secrets of the ferryman`s family - thank the stars for it!

    [edit] The Castle of the Crown





    The castle of the crown is a stunning palace, giving testimony to the skill of the kingdom`s architects and the richness of its treasury. The castle is a monument of marble, gold and precious gems, with tall arched ceilings and artistic fittings. I am told that it was built one hundred years ago by King Aliphid as a present to his bride, Queen Astar. The previous castle, also called the Castle of the Crown, was large and drafty and had been the seat of the royal family for over three hundred years. It is said that King Aliphid was cautious over his new brides fragile health and built the new palace with thick walls for protection from the high winds with cool hallways for respite from the blazing tropical sun.

    The palace is made even more exotic by the race of guard dogs that serve and protect the palace. These wondrous creatures seem to combine the best qualities of canine and human. Speaking in gruff voices and armed with swords or pikes, the guard dogs are strong and intelligent, and have loyally served the crown through the centuries.

    Despite my status as a stranger I was granted a visit with the reigning king and queen. Their openness and accessibility, added to the lack of drawbridges, moats, or battlements of any kind, make clear to me the innocence of this kingdom that had never known war or treachery. Had I been a viper in disguise, I would have been granted an intimate audience just as readily! As a citizen of the larger, more dangerous world, it made me feel a little nervous and honor bound not to betray such trust in me.

    I met the king and queen in the castle's throne room. The throne room is a vast hall more ornate then anything these poor eyes have ever seen. Standing before the two thrones in that cavern of gold, it felt as though I stood before fabled Olympus itself. Yet, raising my eyes up slowly to those noble faces, I saw nothing of judgment in their eyes, nothing of disdain, indeed, their faces were full of kindness, welcome and kindness.

    As for the rulers of this kingdom themselves, King Caliphim, though not a large man, has an air of strength and self assurance about him. He has the face of a scholar and the eyes of a gentle benefactor. Of Queen Allaria, his beautiful wife , my first impression was of hair the color of night and skin as pale as dawn. She smiled at me graciously and I could see the sadness there. For despite the glory of the palace around them, the halls seem to weigh on the couple with their emptiness. Having met the royal couple and recovered sufficently from my ordeal at sea, I began to feel right curious about the other islands in the kingdom, and so I put my itching feet in the care of the jolly ferryman.

    [edit] PART III The Isle of Wonder





    Imagine a place where the very path beneath your feet might complain of your weight, and the trees purposely drop twigs on your head for the sheer merriment of it all, and you`ll have an idea of what it's like to be on the Isle of Wonder. The Isle of Wonder is a comma shaped body of land that might as well resemble a question mark, for confusion and astonishment are sure to be a lot of the unknowing visitor. The island is teeming with life. Vegetation is abundant as are the island's inhabitants. In fact, the two are frequently the one and the same. One can scarcely pick up a grain of sand on that shore without it demanding to be put back... and this instant, if you please. The history of this unusual island is an issue of fervent speculation. That it was an uninteresting deserted island until a wizard enchanted the whole place, bringing everything in it to life, and presented it to his daughter as a birthday present. Others say that the island was once a prison of a beautiful princess, held captive there by a powerful and jealous queen. The maiden was so fair that the very trees and stones themselves could not bear to hear her crying, and came to life to provide her companionship. Still another group claims that the Creator of the Universe simply got tired of serious business of life giving and decided to indulge his or her sense of humour. Whatever the origin, a more delightful spot could scarcely be imagined. But be warned those travellers who like to know, exactly what to expect from life would be well advised to go elsewhere. Whilst most of the islands inhabitants are friendly. some of the thornier natives are capable of being downright rude!, and all are quirky. Visitors are frequent on the Isle of Wonder for it offers a refreshing respite from the ho-hum of everyday life. Even the King and Queen enjoy a picnic or a stroll in the gardens, and they are on occasion to be found relaxing and passing the time of day with the island's natives.

    The rulers of the Isle of Wonder are a pair of queens, rivals in every way, and most frequently to be found arguing over everything from the color of the sky to the consistency of potato hash. Despite their eccentricities, the Isle of Wonder, seems to run smoothly and be a flourishing part of the kingdom, providing many exports and lending the kingdom a lightheartedness to counter the more serious countrymen on the Isle of the Sacred Mountain.

    [edit] PART IV The Isle of the Sacred Mountain






    City of the Winged Ones

    The Isle of the Sacred Mountain, on first impression, appears to be nothing but a great wall of cliffs rising to the sky with no apparent means of scaling it. The visitor is soon met, however, by a pair of "greeters" of the Winged Ones race.

    The Winged Ones are the inhabitants of the Isle of the Sacred Mountain. Towering to a height of six to seven feet, the Winged Ones are by far the most impressive creatures I have ever seen. Each one of them, male and female alike, is surpassingly beautiful. Their bodies are muscled and athletic and gleaming with health. From their broad backs mighty wings emerge like secondary limbs, strong and webbed, and covered with large white feathers. And when they spread those massive wings.. oh!... it is as if the sun itself is eclipsed.

    Two of these creatures, the greeters, meet visitors at the base of the cliffs and so was I met. Gently, they took my arms and flew me upwards. Has there been a man who hasn't dreamed of flying? Are we all not Icarus in our heart of hearts? Imagine then, the thrill of that flight and the glory of the beings who rule the very air around us!

    But as the saw warns, "Beauty is only skin deep." I was flown to the Winged Ones city, a strange and haunting place whose architecture combines the two overriding elements of this culture: aviation and the classical. The city seems built to exclude those poor creatures whose lot it is to crawl like insects upon the ground, for each edifice towers into the sky with no connection to the next or to the ground itself save by flight.

    Thus completely dependent on the greeters to travel about the city or even leave, the visitor is humbled and loathe to much exploration. This appeared to me to be rather the intention, for the culture of the Winged Ones is a private one. On the Isle of Wonder I always felt welcome, despite the sometimes gruff nature of the inhabitants. They had a certain simplicity, an honesty about them. By contrast, although my reception with the Winged Ones was on the surface extremely polite, the formal words of welcome did not ring true. I sensed, in the eyes of that beauteous race, a disdain of common humanity, a haughtiness that made them suddenly irksome in their golden perfection in the eyes of this humble observer.

    Despite this innate sense of superiority, the Winged Ones are valuable members of the kingdom and provide many important skills. Incredibly intelligent, the Winged Ones are master logicians and mathematicians, precise architects and planners. They disdain magic and the daintier arts, being far too logical for such goings on. Even the palace of the Winged Ones city has a sparseness, a sense of functionality that denotes their contempt for artistic ornamentation.

    The Winged Ones culture is old, and they make frequent references to the "Ancient Ones," their forefathers, whose ruins and great works still abound on the island. The Isle of the Sacred Mountain is ruled by a lord and lady, who exist as monarchs
  • edited June 2012
    When it comes to King's Quest, I pay attention to the games, and not the periphery. I don't consider Kingdom of Sorrow, See No Weevil or The Floating Castle to have any bearing on the games, either.

    Red herring, unlike Derek Karlavaegen, the (Boulevard Novels) were never incorporated into the games in any manner, or influenced anything really (even the idea of "town of Daventry' as seen in KQ8 preexists those novels back to the KQ1 and KQ2 manuals even). Roberta Williams did not work on those books at all. She may have read them, but that's the limit of her involvement. Other than that Sierra's involvement was 'licensing'.

    In comparison we know Roberta had a large part of writing the Companions, and that Peter Spear and Roberta are friends. We also know that Sierra chose to hire 'eluki bes shahar' a professional novelist to do the KQ6 novelization (Peter Spear, Jane Jensen, and others were only the editors of that chapter).

    You'd only dream to have the respect Peter Spear received from Roberta Williams, Ken Williams, Jane Jensen, John Williams, Lorelei Shannon, and Josh Mandel, and other King's Quest developers who chose to incorporate aspects of his work into the games and the game manuals...

    References made in KQ5 script (see also KQ5 NES, which included an adapted script written by Roberta) and manual ("Cedric turned to stone", the "royal physicians looking over King Graham", etc), references made in KQ6, manual and the inhouse published KQ6 hintbook (Derek Karlavaegen, those royal physicians again, Lake Maylie, etc), references made in King's Questions (more than I'll list in this post), etc. Sierra's continued use of the product in the Kings' Quest collections material and Interaction Magazine... It had more importance than any 'fan fiction' story out there.

    Btw, by definition of fan fiction, those are stories that are both amatuer, unlicensed (although may in some cases have a 'fan license' which should not be confused with a regular IP lisence used for monitary gain), unpublished and unsupported by the owners of the IP. The Companions a higher form/productt, as a form of 'professional fiction' (profic); a form of licensed published work, to be published and sold for monetary gain in most cases.

    Now 'published profic' doesn't necessarily mean canon (as the number of Star Trek novels out there will confirm!), but it certain means they are a step above 'fan fic'. Not that Sierra defined a 'strict canon'. Hell the games themselves often contradict themselves in many places (details are ignored in later games, etc).

    But Sierra certainly had a body of 'official published work' in both games and on paper, thus the opposite of 'fan fiction'. There is more in common with official 3rd party Telltale Games IP license and official published IP licensing for previously published books, than there is anything in common with any form of "fan fiction" (by definition).

    Another important point to understand the difference between a profic and a fanfic... Is that the author who writes a profic, isn't necessarily a fan of the series they are hired to write novels for, but is being paid to write the book... Which is probably the case with the Boulevard novels. Boulevard earned the license and permissions, and then they just hired authors to fullfill the contract with Sierra for three book deal... This also appears to be the case with the use of 'eluki bes shahar' (Rosemary Edgehill) to write the KQ6 novel, as she had no previous experience with the KQ games when she was hired by Jane Jensen et al, to write the novel. Profic authors are basically "freelance" (some may know of the series they are writing, others may not. They may or may not be fans). Again which places them into something very different than a 'fan fic'.

    Also keep in mind not all developers of the official KQ games, were necessarily "KQ fans", but may have been hired to work on the games. ...and through that they put their marks on the games, that doesn't necessarily make them 'fans' of the series. Which brings us back to a Telltale games comparison!

    In comparison, you are a nobody!
  • edited June 2012
    My taint itches.
  • edited June 2012
    My taint itches.
    monkey-butt-powder.jpg
  • edited June 2012
    BagginsKQ wrote: »
    In comparison, you are a nobody!

    True, I am a nobody - but my opinion matters to me. And Derek Kalavageenanana is lame.

    What is Peter Spear up to today?


    Bt
  • edited June 2012
    Take your pick;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:The_King%27s_Quest_Companion
    Peter Spear used to live in Mill Valley, CA. He died in 1998 during the storms that were wrecking havoc on Marin County. The last phone call I had with him was in 1998, and he told me a tree went through his roof. I found his phone listing again in 2004, and Al Lowe, Leisure Suit Larry's creator, and I discussed it via e-mail, and I telephoned the number on a Sunday evening. Virginia Soper answered and informed me Peter had died six years earlier. I informed her Mr. Spear taught everything about being an author and helped me all during high school with assignments and ethics in proper manners and behavior. I told her I thank him for that and she said good-bye and the phone call ended. I told Al, and he told Ken Williams, and that was that. We all went separate ways thereafter. Coffee4binky (talk) 09:11, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
    Not that I'd trust anyone with a name like "Coffee4binky". BTW, for anyone wondering Virginia Soper is the wife of Peter Spear.

    ...or he's living the highlife near San Franscisco. Big house, etc. He apparently still has a large collection of KQ memorabilia/concept material he received from Roberta and Ken Williams themselves. Big stories about his friendship with the Williams... and he had been hobnobing around with Cesar Bittar back in 2006...

    http://web.archive.org/web/20070106222338/www.tsl-game.com/journal/
  • edited June 2012
    The games are the games. Derek Wahtshisnutts is just a bit of outside fun, but he has no bearing on the games what-so-ever. [...] I don't need all kinds of information, back stories or nunsuch to let me enjoy the games. Some people dig it; I never give it a thought when I'm playing.
    I agree.

    BagginsKQ wrote: »
    You obviously haven't played KQ6...

    Ferryman (KQ6 script): "The island's currents keep us pretty isolated. I can only recall three visitors in my lifetime. When I was a boy a wanderer came, Alhazred himself arrived many years ago, and now you. We have almost no contact with the outside world, but we're content with our little kingdom. At least, we always were in the past."

    [WALL OF TEXT]
    I don't think you understand Blackthorne's point. From his perspective (and mine), the games (the core 7, for my own part) are what matters; the rest of the materials are periphery. Sure, they can be interesting and fun. But I think he's trying to say that the KQ Companion has little to no more bearing on the canon games than perhaps the fan-made games do.

    With that in mind, that ferryman quote (which is only on the Amiga version, btw--I had to look it up because I didn't remember it) says nothing of who visited the Land of the Green Isles before Alexander, nor does it make a difference to know as the ferryman's point was only to convey their isolation.

    Frankly, I look at the KQ Companion like I do the Hyrule Historia. It's extra stuff that someone (or several someones) wrote who thought it would be fun to expand on its franchise's universe. I don't consider it important when it comes to the games (or even valid in some cases, such as the case of the 3-part Zelda timeline--seriously, Link dying is not a required part of the OOT story.)
  • edited June 2012
    With that in mind, that ferryman quote (which is only on the Amiga version, btw--I had to look it up because I didn't remember it) says nothing of who visited the Land of the Green Isles before Alexander, nor does it make a difference to know as the ferryman's point was only to convey their isolation.

    Actually run SciViewer, and you'll find its in the pc version too even on the CD version, along with some other bits of narrative that you can't access in the game for whatever reason. I think they even did the voiceovers for it... It's just strangely not accessable.

    I think Chyron you and Blackthorne missed my point, from the getgo... My point is that the manual that is needed for KQ6, the Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles, needed for copy protection is by "Derek Karlavaegen". It's a required part of the game... Ignoring the Companion for a moment, you can't ignore the Guidebook... It comes with every version of KQ6 in a printed or PDF form.

    BTW, I don't appreciate both of you hijacking this thread, to complain about the KQ companion, when this thread was more about the Manual material like the Guidebook, or the short stories included in the early KQ manuals.... That stuff in the first six KQ games wasn't "periphery" it made up and was required for the complete KQ experience (how else would you learn more about Edward, more about his wife, more about the three treasures, those who stole them, more about Hagatha, Manannan, Gerwain, etc. Infact some of it even offered a clue on what to do in the game, setting up direct objectives). If anything that's that's the version of "Derek Karlavaegen" that even matters as far as the games are concerned...

    BTW, frankly mainly mentioned the Guidebook of the Land of the Green Isles in my initial post, but didn't directly mention the "Companion" (though I did mention the 'periphery' extended history of him beyond the companion just to explain how and why he ended up being used in the games by developers of KQ6) That stuff is less important, to the initial question of having additional pack in material added to the game. "feelies" if you will, to use the term invented by Infocom for packin material to describe these types of manuals (or other things added to the game for value).

    Frankly if you don't care about those kind of packins, what's the point of you even coming into this thread? Troll?

    Troller?

    troller.jpg
    Troller is looking for a response...ANY response, and he will chum the waters with complaints, insults, compliments, and inflammatory tidbits hoping that someone...ANYONE, will take the bait. Generally quite harmless - practices a form of catch and release. Nonetheless, he can upset the delicate ecology of a discussion forum. Once a forum becomes aware of his presence, however, all feeding activity ceases and Troller must move on to more promising waters.

    Also calling KQ8 "peryphery", and not part of the "core" of the series...

    You might want to check again;

    http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30223
  • edited June 2012
    I think everyone is forgetting that the Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles is actually IN KQ6. In Alhazred's trunk, actually. It is mentioned by name as being among Alhazred's possessions IN THE GAME, with a comment from the narrator saying that book would've been of aid to Alexander. I think that enough confirms Derek's existence in the KQ universe.

    From KQ6:

    Narrator: "A few worn leather books occupy the trunk. The top one is entitled "Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles. A book like that might have been a big help when Alexander first arrived! The trunk's owner obviously found it interesting, too, for the guidebook is dog-eared and stained."

    Also, Jane Jensen, who co-designed and co-wrote KQ6, ALSO wrote the Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles, which was "written" by Derek and came packaged with KQ6. It's not just fan fiction stuff.
  • edited June 2012
    Anakin, its not just that, but there are other references within KQ6 (self-contradictory to the above quote you mentioned) where the narrator explains 'Alexander read about that in the Guidebook', or explains that Alexander, 'the journeyer, needs to check out the guidebook', as if he has a copy on himself.

    Here is an example;
    "Reading about the Ancient Ones in the "Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles" may help a puzzled journeyer.",

    Basically its the only explanation for how Alexander translated the text on the Cliffs of Logic, and knew about the riddles of the traps in the Catacombs in order to get past them.
  • edited June 2012
    BagginsKQ wrote: »
    Anakin, its not just that, but there are other references within KQ6 (self-contradictory to the above quote you mentioned) where the narrator explains Alexander 'read about that in the Guidebook', or tells Alexander to 'check out the guidebook', as if he has a copy on himself.

    Basically its the only explanation for how Alexander translated the text on the Cliffs of Logic, and knew about the riddles of the traps in the Catacombs in order to get past them.

    Well, remember, in KQ6, WE (the player) are Alexander, just as we are the protagonist in all the KQ games. We're stepping into his boots. He may not have the Guidebook, but we do, and we help him finish his journey with it.
  • edited June 2012
    From the KQ6 Hintbook published by Sierra;

    Did you figure out;
    ""That Alhazred found a copy of the "Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles," and that was why he decided to come to this kingdom and take over?", KQ6 Hintbook, pg 74
    Well, remember, in KQ6, WE (the player) are Alexander, just as we are the protagonist in all the KQ games. We're stepping into his boots. He may not have the Guidebook, but we do, and we help him finish his journey with it.

    Fourth wall much? Suspension of disbelief?
  • edited June 2012
    BagginsKQ wrote: »
    From the KQ6 Hintbook published by Sierra;

    Did you figure out;
    ""That Alhazred found a copy of the "Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles," and that was why he decided to come to this kingdom and take over?", KQ6 Hintbook, pg 74



    Fourth wall much? Suspension of disbelief?

    Doesn't the KQ series feature both in small amounts? I mean KQ6 is a game where if you knock Alexander off the cliffs enough times he'll tell you to stop making him do that.
  • edited June 2012
    Only in the first three games, which was more 2nd person narration (see things like the note on the tree, or the hole in the rock, or the message behind the tapestry). In those games you were the character, you weren't a player controlling the character. It was very clear that "you are Graham" or "you are Gwydion" and your knowledge is supposed to be nearly as limited as their own!

    It was pretty much eliminated in the fourth, where the perspective changed to Rosella's with a more third person style narration (not counting a few easter eggs such as if you try to use naughty words, and the notes in the bottle found in the whale)... The the one example you use in KQ6 is an 'easter egg', and not part of the story.

    One may argue that the death voiceovers in KQ7 are the protaganists either talking to themselves or to you as the player... But its not meant to totally 'break the fourth wall'.

    Roberta also said in interviews that stories had to make sense from the perpective of the person in the world. They aren't being pushed forward by the 'hand of god'... That's why many point out the logical issue, behind Alexander choosing the right genie bottle in KQ6, yet never having saw the bottle himself... Or puzzles like Graham giving the bottle to the witch, since he never knew it had a genie in it! Those are examples where Roberta even contradicted herself!

    Now if you want fourth wall breaking, and its intentional, even beyond what was seen in KQ1-3, go play Space Quest! The narrator would poke fun at the player, Roger Wilco,. Wilco would acknowledge the narrator, etc. Or you can play TSL...
  • edited June 2012
    BagginsKQ wrote: »
    Also calling KQ8 "periphery", and not part of the "core" of the series...
    It's an action adventure game whose emphasis is on combat, not a point-and-click adventure game whose emphasis is on puzzles. The gameplay and focus is entirely different, so no don't consider it a core title. Though I wouldn't call it periphery so much as simply a spin-off.

    I think everyone is forgetting that the Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles is actually IN KQ6. In Alhazred's trunk, actually. It is mentioned by name as being among Alhazred's possessions IN THE GAME, with a comment from the narrator saying that book would've been of aid to Alexander. I think that enough confirms Derek's existence in the KQ universe.
    Hmm. Well okay then, I'll accept that.
  • edited June 2012
    Chyron8472 wrote: »
    It's an action adventure game whose emphasis is on combat, not a point-and-click adventure game whose emphasis is on puzzles. The gameplay and focus is entirely different, so no I don't consider it a core title.


    Hmm. Well okay then, I'll accept that.

    You have to remember though that in the early KQ games you could kill. In every instance with a major bad guy in KQ1 for example, you could either kill them or dispatch them without killing them. You could either stab the dragon in the throat with your dagger, or douse it's flame with water; You could either kill the Giant hoarding the Chest and take the Chest or wait till he fell asleep and snatch it. You had to kill the Witch to survive, no options there. You had to drown the Troll to get to the Island, no options there. And in the adventure genre in general, in the early adventure games, combat was a part of it--killing--in the old text adventures.

    And KQ8 has plenty of puzzles as well. I'd say it's 50/50 puzzles and combat.
  • edited June 2012
    It's an action adventure game whose emphasis is on combat, not a point-and-click adventure game whose emphasis is on puzzles. The gameplay and focus is entirely different, so no don't consider it a core title. Though I wouldn't call it periphery so much as simply a spin-off.


    Again, your 'intepretation is off".... The emphasis was on adventure, with combat added. Much like Quest for Glory... But that's brought up over and over, in interviews, and on the KQ8 website, and the box even... Combat was an 'addition', not an 'emphasis'...

    It was never meant to be a 'spin-off', and was always stated to be KQ8. It was stated as such on the website...

    Only people who lie or are ignorant claim it was 'meant to be a spin-off'.

    Again check out the thread; Never mind I'll repost her;

    found one of the only captures of the old KQ8:MOE forums, and a capture of the main King's Quest forums on Sierra's defuct website. It's interesting to note that in the forums Sierra officially listed the game as King's Quest VIII: The Mask of Eternity.

    This forum was up for a while it it was shut down in the mid 2000s, when Sierra closed. These archive captures are from about 2004.

    King's Quest VIII: The Mask of Eternity at the Sierra Forums

    640px-KQ8Forum.png

    King's Quest Sierra Forums

    640px-Kingsquestforums.png
    Also another detail I discovered was on the official KQ8 website;

    King's Quest: Mask of Eternity website

    Once may notice that the browser tab for the page is listed as KQ8: Mask of Eternity.

    KQ8websitebrowsertab.png

    If you hover the cursor over the headers of each page, you get popup message like this;

    KQ8websitescrollover.png

    If you go into some of the information on the website as well, there are references from Mark Seibert and links to interviews where he calls the game King's Quest 8 as well.

    So Sierra was actively advertising the game as King's Quest 8 at the time.

    Also an interesting bit of trivia is that in the game files there are two folder groups in each level folder, that are named ''8Bit'' and ''8Gui''. This is a nod to the game being KQ8. The first folder holds the 16-bit bitmap artwork textures, and the second folder holds the 'graphical user interface' files.

    KQ8folders.png

    It's a bit a myth when fans lie (ya some fans are a bunch of liars and cheats) and make the false claim that "Sierra never considered this game "KQ8"". When in fact they were advertising it as KQ8 all over the place (and it even exists in the files).

    To this day Roberta Williams and Ken Williams still refer to it as King's Quest 8/VIII.

    It's interesting to note that the choice to leave off the number on boxart, is shared with other games produced between 1990 and 1998 such as The Beast Within: A Gabriel Knight Mystery (aka GK2), Quest For Glory: Shadows of Darkness (aka QFG4), The Lost Secret of the Rainforest (EcoQuest 2), Police Quest: Open Season (aka PQ4), Police Quest: SWAT (PQ5), Police Quest: SWAT 2 (PQ6), etc.
  • edited June 2012
    You have to remember though that in the early KQ games you could kill. In every instance with a major bad guy in KQ1 for example, you could either kill them or dispatch them without killing them. You could either stab the dragon in the throat with your dagger, or douse it's flame with water; You could either kill the Giant hoarding the Chest and take the Chest or wait till he fell asleep and snatch it. You had to kill the Witch to survive, no options there. You had to drown the Troll to get to the Island, no options there. And in the adventure genre in general, in the early adventure games, combat was a part of it--killing--in the old text adventures.

    Keep in mind those random encounters have nothing to do with puzzles,and they were as Roberta describes in the KQ1 manual and the hintbook she wrote, "arcade sequence". Just something to get in your way, and avoid! (the mazes in the early games were also considered 'arcade/action' sequences)

    For that matter, "kill character' was a viable action for nearly every enemy in the game. But you got a return message, such as "you're combat skills are insufficient, and blank would pulverize you before you had a chance". So its not like it tells you can't do it, just that you are incapable of fighting off the monster... Infact if you do get into a fight (represented by a cloud of smoke), you get clobbered!

    I think Roberta once said if she had a chance to remake KQ1 with 'todays' (being relative to when she said it) technology (that is if she had features to allow for some combat) it would have been similar to KQ8!
  • edited June 2012
    BagginsKQ wrote: »
    Only people who lie or are ignorant claim it was 'meant to be a spin-off'.
    You're not going to sway me there. It doesn't look or feel at all like the rest of the series.


    You have to remember though that in the early KQ games you could kill.
    Merely as a solution to a puzzle, yes. The "enemies" have no hitpoints. The only real combat the other titles get into is the sword fight at the end of KQ6, and you have no direct control over Alexander's actions in that case more than to begin and end the fight.
  • edited June 2012
    You're not going to sway me there. It doesn't look or feel at all like the rest of the series.

    No one is trying to 'sway you' your opinion into liking the game... How you 'feel about the game' is your choice.

    However, I can correct you on if you make false claims about the game. That doesn't necessarily mean you'll still like the game. But that's not the point. It's one thing for you to say "I think it was a poorly made game in the series, I don't like that they added in 'combat'", its another to claim "its not a core game of the series" or falsely claim that 'it's a spinoff'. You can have an honest and justifiable opinion to think it is a "weak member of the series". Just don't insert falsehoods into your opinion, beyond that.

    I for example have many reasons why I thin KQ3 and KQ7 are two of the weakest entries into the series, but I would never make the false claims that they 'spin-offs' or that they are 'not part of the series'.

    An opinion that is based on a falsehood, is still a falsehood, and never the truth. An informed and educated opinion, is neither truth nor false.

    I would agree, that it has its own unique appearance, and feel... But also find KQ8 to have a different look and feel to previous games as well. I found KQ5 and KQ6 to have a different look and feel to previous games as well.

    Each game evolved the series a little in different directions. The earliest included 'arcade sequences' (mazes, and outrunning random encounters), the middle games tended to cut them out in place of simple point and click puzzles. The earliest games rely on a typing interface, that allows many verb noun combinations and will often give messages for even certain combinations that won't work. The first three allowed you action choices such as jump, duck and/or swim (later games took that feature away for the most part).


    Middle games started adding in point and click interface, KQ5 originally had both a run and walk command.

    KQ7 got rid of most of the interface, and simplified the diaologue, cut the narrator...

    I find there being about four different styles that KQ encompasses...
  • edited June 2012
    "...you can't ignore the Guidebook..."

    Sure you can, if you try real hard! Give it a go!
  • edited June 2012
    More like "Derek Karlvagina!!"
  • edited June 2012
    I did not hijack the thread to complain about the KQ companion - I LIKE the KQ companion, but I find the character of Derek Karlavagenan or whatever (I mean, look at that last name. That's pure amateur D&D fan shit right there.) to be a poorly written attempt to connect the real world with The World of King's Quest. It's a bit of Peter Spear's whimsy, and that's all.

    Derek Karlavahoonanoo is lame. The KQ companion isn't; it's a fun read, and a way to enhance the KQ games, but is in no way - to me - any real part of KQ.

    So Alhazered has a Guidebook to the Green Isles? Does it mention Derek K at all? I don't think so. That book could be written by anyone.

    You can easily ignore the guidebook. I've played the game MULTIPLE times without it.


    Bt

    PS Hijacking the thread is arguing about KQ8... yet again. THAT is thread hijacking, just so you're clear.
  • edited June 2012
    Chyron8472 wrote: »
    You're not going to sway me there. It doesn't look or feel at all like the rest of the series.



    Merely as a solution to a puzzle, yes. The "enemies" have no hitpoints. The only real combat the other titles get into is the sword fight at the end of KQ6, and you have no direct control over Alexander's actions in that case more than to begin and end the fight.

    But is not violence still violence? Whether you kill a character as part of a puzzle, or in combat, you're still killing, and in KQ1 at least, it apparently could earn you points. I guess it comes down to whether you dislike killing itself, or the presentation of it in KQ8.

    "Killing the witch gives you points.
    Killing the troll using the goat gives you points. Trying to kill it with your dagger, he realizes the troll is bigger than him, stronger than him, and much meaner than him. He knows better than to even try it.
    Killing the giant (gain two points in original, three points in remake).
    Killing the dragon. With unerring aim, the dagger streaks through the air and pierces the soft, unprotected skin under the dragons throat. (In original, lose 2 points, in SCI remake gain three points)
    Killing the goat (no points lost)."
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