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Commerce means civilization

posted by The_Cheshire_Cat on - last edited - Viewed by 1.5K users
Has this been realized? On the preview of the next episode there is a short clip with Clem and Lee on a train. Clem is asking about adults being mad.

At first I didn’t think about it, but I been reading ‘Atlas Shrugged’ so maybe that’s why it dawned on me but…

In order for that train to run someone has to be driving it. As simple as it may look not just anybody can hop in a train and drive it. In order for the train to move fuel has to be used, and goods must be being transported between one location and other.

So in other words money is moving that train. The train looked empty except for Clem and Lee, so it’s not like it’s a FEMA train. So I wonder then…does this mean there are pockets of civilization in which that train is going back and forth from. A railway system is complicated and expensive to maintain. It takes more than just one train conductor to make it work. That means a lot of people are alive, thriving and most importantly making commerce.
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  • The_Cheshire_Cat;646210 said:
    Has this been realized? On the preview of the next episode there is a short clip with Clem and Lee on a train. Clem is asking about adults being mad.

    At first I didn’t think about it, but I been reading ‘Atlas Shrugged’ so maybe that’s why it dawned on me but…

    In order for that train to run someone has to be driving it. As simple as it may look not just anybody can hop in a train and drive it. In order for the train to move fuel has to be used, and goods must be being transported between one location and other.

    So in other words money is moving that train. The train looked empty except for Clem and Lee, so it’s not like it’s a FEMA train. So I wonder then…does this mean there are pockets of civilization in which that train is going back and forth from. A railway system is complicated and expensive to maintain. It takes more than just one train conductor to make it work. That means a lot of people are alive, thriving and most importantly making commerce.
    I think the whole train thing is pretty original. I've seen plenty of ZA movies where the group is moving across great distances on foot (how crazy is that?) or in poor condition or lightly up-armored vehicles (that does not seem to go well either). A train could be a very safe way to travel cross-crountry...but travel to where?

    I like the commerce idea. Sort of gives one the feeling that things are getting better and back to normal. Unfortunately, this is not a routine ZA with a happy ending. This is a walking dead ZA.

    More likely, another group was sheltering in place at a train depot just like Lee's group did at the motel. Now that it looks like this ZA is not going to just blow over they too are looking for a long term safe location. All that's missing is the next hair-brained idea...enter Lee with a hair-brained idea...but where to go.

    I hear Nebraska is nice this time of year.
  • The_Cheshire_Cat;646210 said:
    Has this been realized? On the preview of the next episode there is a short clip with Clem and Lee on a train. Clem is asking about adults being mad.

    At first I didn’t think about it, but I been reading ‘Atlas Shrugged’ so maybe that’s why it dawned on me but…

    In order for that train to run someone has to be driving it. As simple as it may look not just anybody can hop in a train and drive it. In order for the train to move fuel has to be used, and goods must be being transported between one location and other.

    So in other words money is moving that train. The train looked empty except for Clem and Lee, so it’s not like it’s a FEMA train. So I wonder then…does this mean there are pockets of civilization in which that train is going back and forth from. A railway system is complicated and expensive to maintain. It takes more than just one train conductor to make it work. That means a lot of people are alive, thriving and most importantly making commerce.
    Id hope money would become irrelevant when z day happened, it's one of the advantages of a zombie apocalypse everyone is given an equal chance of survival, no buying your way out of this one biatch! Na but everyone always forgets who is running the nuclear stations, the sewers, the water, gas and electricity, all this needs constant maintainence to prevent disasters and I'm pretty sure when the zombies came no one wanted to stay behind and keep working, so either way anyone even near a nuclear power station after a few days/weeks is real dead,either from the intial blast or radiation. Combine that with all the others, and you have one bad day to be Alive. the biggest worry is disease (from sewage) and radiation.
  • Master of Aeons;646329 said:
    Ugh. This is the worst.

    Okay. No one may be qualified to call your bluff, but Atlas Shrugged has about as much to do with modern trains as does "The Polar Express". Just because she ran the train business in the PAST does not make you an expert on trains. Hell, I played Resident Evil 3, which worked in a bunch of trains that you could make use of by pulling on a lever. Does that mean that in order for trains to work, you need a metropolitan zombie apocalypse, an assault rifle and a godmoding BOW chasing you?

    No, a train simply requires fuel and a conductor to run, as you avoided proving in your original post. The rest of your post is false conjecture and "holy shit, I read a book that's 1000 pages of the author telling me how to think".

    If there are any survivors of the original crew or someone - like DOUG - who is capable of learning new things, then anyone could power the train themselves. Doing so would be a major plus in the zombie wasteland where fuel is scarce and returning power to the station is easier than drilling for more oil. (I'm assuming it's like the electrical trolleys here. It could be coal. You nor I can have this argument.)

    You don't have a single valid point in your original post. The rest of the thread just gets worse.
    A perfect post, I couldnt put it better myself hahaha
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    Vainamoinen Moderator
    As some guy from the street, you can't get a train to run. That includes Doug (who only a quarter of TWD players have in their group anyway).

    I'm not even certain you can get a modern train to go anywhere without constant communication with a manned headquarters somewhere else in the country. These security measures are incredibly tight for good reason.

    It'll be interesting to see what Telltale will pick up for a "realistic" portrayal, but eventually, TWD is a drama/action series, not a documentary. Actual train operators will undoubtedly have a sad. ;)
  • Vainamoinen;646562 said:
    As some guy from the street, you can't get a train to run. That includes Doug (who only a quarter of TWD players have in their group anyway).

    I'm not even certain you can get a modern train to go anywhere without constant communication with a manned headquarters somewhere else in the country. These security measures are incredibly tight for good reason.

    It'll be interesting to see what Telltale will pick up for a "realistic" portrayal, but eventually, TWD is a drama/action series, not a documentary. Actual train operators will undoubtedly have a sad. ;)
    I'm all for a bit of "suspension of disbelief" on this matter.:)
  • Vainamoinen;646562 said:
    As some guy from the street, you can't get a train to run. That includes Doug (who only a quarter of TWD players have in their group anyway).

    I'm not even certain you can get a modern train to go anywhere without constant communication with a manned headquarters somewhere else in the country. These security measures are incredibly tight for good reason.

    It'll be interesting to see what Telltale will pick up for a "realistic" portrayal, but eventually, TWD is a drama/action series, not a documentary. Actual train operators will undoubtedly have a sad. ;)
    I think you may be right about passenger trains but I have a feeling that less complicated vehicles are in use too.

    I used to work for a company that treated and disposed of hazardous waste. We once had a contract to remove asbestos from electrical boxes on the side of the track. There were other maintenance teams present and the line closest to us was closed off to traffic. We had a diesel locomotive shadowing us which was left running most of the time (I believe that this may have been to charge electrical energy for the main drive) but sometimes it was switched off. It seemed to me that the driver could just jump into the cab, start it up and shunt it up and down the track as and when he decided.
    Of course different countries could have different systems for conveying rolling stock.

    I'm going to stick with the theory that Lee and his group have found a working tractor unit and have either had help getting it started or have hotwired it.

    I have a mechanical background and am pretty sure I could easily get one running. Who wants to be in my group come the ZA? :D
  • I thought the same way following this thread, then I started a bit of research and now strongly believe that any and all of us would fail miserably getting a Diesel-electric train to go more then a hundred meters, if we were able to start it at all.

    You actually need keys, you need to blow off water that collects in the engine before you start it(otherwhise it could/would tear the pistons apart), the electric motors have to be connected and charged (they apply the actual force to the wheels, the Diesel motor "only" charges them)there are failsafe systems that have to be operated to make sure the conductor is paying attention or the train would autobreak, and so on and on. I was quite surprised actually. Even breaking doesn't seem to be THAT easy. :D

    And my last but definitely strongest concern is fuel. A train will consume from around 15 liters per hour to 750 lph (says the almighty internet), depending on engine speed (engine rpm not driving speed), which would take a massive reserve to have, if you would want to run it on a regular route. Also, how would you pump the stocked Diesel into the train tank? Fuel pumps for that kind of task are highly powered devices, safeguarded by at least 32A CEE power current. Don't expect to link a geni or two on them and make it work.

    Article about Diesel locomotives
    http://science.howstuffworks.com/transport/engines-equipment/diesel-locomotive10.htm

    YouTube (loooong) film about an old Diesel locomotive (skipped through it, still interesting).
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7d7t_4dZko&feature
  • Getting the fuel would not nessary be that big of a problem. Growing up on a farm, we had pumps to stick in our 500 gallon fuel storage that would work on a 12 volt car battery. Also most tractor and farm macheriny today runs on diesel. So any farm that has tractors for raising wheat/corn/milo would have fuel storage for diesel more likely than not. All the farmers that i know have at least one tank that is mobile, cause it is easier to take the tank to the field rather than run the macherinary back to the house. Thay have already established that the town is rural, and the last episode establishes that there is farms around. St. John issue was that thier gennie ran off gasoline, which is less likely to be stored on farms and also gas breaks down faster in storage if i recall correctly. But even gas doesn't break down until about 6 months.
  • That would still mean you have roughly 1900 liters of Diesel on the farm, taken the tanks are full. Having mobile tanks is a good thing, as transporting the stuff on foot would be impossible (about 1,6 tons).

    Still, 1900 liters of Diesel would last for approximately 120 - 240 hours of the train running, depending on usage. After that, farm 1 would have run dry completely. How many farms are in the vicinity of the rails, and how many bullets can you afford to spend on farming Diesel?
  • godzilla999666;646708 said:
    Getting the fuel would not nessary be that big of a problem. Growing up on a farm, we had pumps to stick in our 500 gallon fuel storage that would work on a 12 volt car battery. Also most tractor and farm macheriny today runs on diesel. So any farm that has tractors for raising wheat/corn/milo would have fuel storage for diesel more likely than not. All the farmers that i know have at least one tank that is mobile, cause it is easier to take the tank to the field rather than run the macherinary back to the house. Thay have already established that the town is rural, and the last episode establishes that there is farms around. St. John issue was that thier gennie ran off gasoline, which is less likely to be stored on farms and also gas breaks down faster in storage if i recall correctly. But even gas doesn't break down until about 6 months.
    Yep I worked in a garage and we had barrels (not cans) of both diesel and petrol which could be quite quickly emptied just using a hand crank pump.

    I'm given to believe that there are monstrously long cargo trains in the US which cover long distances virtually nonstop - presumably these would carry a lot of fuel (which if decoupled from all it's trucks would go even further).

    8bit you've raised some valid points... but just say you got lucky.
    You find a fuelled up locomotive, you don't need keys as they've either been left in it by a fleeing operative or as I've said before you know how to hotwire a vehicle, perhaps there is no condensate in your pistons (quite likely actually) besides you loose compression or blow a cylinder in an apocalypse, hey who cares? - you just keep going until the whole lump stops.... then you find another one. You can't get it to run because you haven't engaged the electric motors etc, hey given enough time and a process of elimination flipping some switches, we get to run - besides when we find our train all the switches are pre flipped for us by our fleeing operative who hastily jumped out thus engaging the safety features. I think most people know about the dead-man's handle etc.
    The locomotive outlined in 8bit's synopsis is a modern high-tech example, the one we luckily discover is much more of an industrial tractor unit... and lucky for us it's one of those long distance jobs too. :D
    Of course operating such machinery is out with the capabilities of most people but equally there are people out the who could manage it... eventually.
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