55% Lack Compassion...

edited January 2013 in The Walking Dead
I was wondering why such a high % refused to let Irene have the gun and take her own life, knowing what was ahead for her.

Most interested in the ideas/opinions of those who refused to give her the gun, but all input welcome, as it should be.

Discuss and explain.
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Comments

  • edited August 2012
    I didn't give her the gun because a) didn't trust her to not shoot me and b) seemed like a waste of a bullet because I assumed it would give me the option to kill her with my axe
  • edited August 2012
    chaz99 wrote: »
    Discuss and explain.


    What is this an essay test?

    And anyway how is it compassion to help someone kill themselves?
  • edited August 2012
    To be honest I didn't want to risk the noise attracting more zombies. I don't think it's a very good idea firing a gun when you don't need to.

    That sounds pretty heartless, but I don't think suicide is ever the right way to go. Maybe if it was me infected, I'd think differently, but I didn't want to hand the gun to her. Plus, she's unstable. What if she turned the gun on me and demanded I cure her somehow, or she'd shoot me?
  • edited August 2012
    I didn't want to be the one who gave her the gun to kill herself, It's not like I didn't want to give her mercy it's just that I didn't want to be the one responsible. Plus Glenn kinda gives you crap for it if you do give her the gun.
  • edited August 2012
    What is this an essay test?

    And anyway how is it compassion to help someone kill themselves?

    She made it pretty darn clear. She didn't want to become a walker, and that was a certainty.
  • edited August 2012
    chaz99 wrote: »
    She made it pretty darn clear. She didn't want to become a walker, and that was a certainty.

    And then come to find out she killed her self in vain because she was mistaken on how the virus spread.

    So then how is it compassion to help assist in the death of someone who is emotionally unstable?
  • edited August 2012
    How was Lee to know that there was no cure?
  • edited August 2012
    And then come to find out she killed her self in vain because she was mistaken on how the virus spread.

    So then how is it compassion to help assist in the death of someone who is emotionally unstable?


    But she where not completely wrong, if you get bit you die and if you die you become a walker unless you destroy the brain.
  • edited August 2012
    So you actually wonder why I wouldn't hand a loaded gun to a mentally unstable individual when the dead are walking the earth and our group only has got one gun?

    1) I would never give someone else a loaded gun.
    2) I would rather shoot her myself then give that person a gun.
    3) Bullets are precious in times like this, I would actually have rather used the axe I had, I mean a bullet or just quickly one chop to the neck you wouldn't feel it right?

    *) This is still hypothetical right..?
  • edited August 2012
    But she where not completely wrong, if you get bit you die and if you die you become a walker unless you destroy the brain.

    Well, we don't know that she would have died of her wounds. But yes, as you say she would have been a walker had she died any other way. But she didn't have to kill herself.
    How was Lee to know that there was no cure?

    Exactly he didn't know, the player didn't know, but to let her kill herself is to give up hope. And we see that she very well could have been alive had she stayed with the group. But because she gave up hope she killed herself in vain.


    Like the guy above me said, ammo is scarce and why give a crazy person a gun.

    If folks wanna kill mentally disabled or distressed folks they should join the Texas government. They love killing people with mental issues out there.
  • edited August 2012
    I think we should hAve been able to chop her up
  • edited August 2012

    Ouch...
    I smell a post removal...
    One is not to talk about that sort of stuff on the TTG boards mate!
  • edited August 2012
    My Lee was stunned by her request. Before he said anything, she tacked us for the gun.
  • edited August 2012
    My Lee was stunned by her request. Before he said anything, she tacked us for the gun.

    Mine was more along the lines of "hmmm a Christian contemplating suicide? Surely not!? Give her the gun!!!
  • edited August 2012
    "God bless you" ;)
  • edited August 2012
    She's bitten, so death is already certain (she said she saw it happen already, so she knows she is going to die either way). So she's not really committing suicide, she is just ensuring that she dies without becoming a flesh eating zombie.
  • edited August 2012
    raptor wrote: »
    She's bitten, so death is already certain (she said she saw it happen already, so she knows she is going to die either way). So she's not really committing suicide, she is just ensuring that she dies without becoming a flesh eating zombie.

    We already eat flesh...your point?
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited August 2012
    How was Lee to know that there was no cure?

    Maybe he was into the Hershel solution?
  • edited August 2012
    It wasn't that I lacked compassion, As I've said previously, I just wasn't going to hand over the only firearm the group had to a complete stranger that was acting just a wee bit nutty. I saw the choice as "Do you want Lee to potentially earn a Darwin Award? Yes/No"; my Lee chose no.

    I would've been willing to do the deed myself and mercy kill her; hell, Irene herself suggests doing so (it's just that we can't exercise the option, which is frankly dumb). I could justify the expenditure of a round to end someone's suffering, not the only gun we have though.
  • edited August 2012
    to me, in my way of thinking, compassion does not exist during a zombie Apoc.. I would have left her in her room given the chance.. dont going to waste a bullet or hand over our only gun (at that time) to a distraught woman.

    the only exception is Clem, having to follow the game.. But she's not my kid and if she slowes me up, she's zombie bait!
  • edited August 2012
    As far as the "we can't spare the ammunition" argument goes, as far as the game is concerned, I really doubt that that is an issue. Carley has the gun and we are not told how many rds she has and as far as we know she could be packing thousands of rounds around with her. We just offed six walkers with one round.

    The question is more a philosophical one- does someone have the right to choose how they die if die they must? Speaking as someone who has worked with sick people for decades, I have to say that I believe they do. My point is that Irene has chosen this way out, and in context of the likely event of her turning into a walker post mortem it can also be argued that her choice is one that would benefit the rest of humanity. It is in the interest of the survivors and those who want to survive the ZA that there not be another walker if it can be prevented.
  • edited August 2012
    chaz99 wrote: »
    As far as the "we can't spare the ammunition" argument goes, as far as the game is concerned, I really doubt that that is an issue. Carley has the gun and we are not told how many rds she has and as far as we know she could be packing thousands of rounds around with her. We just offed six walkers with one round.

    The question is more a philosophical one- does someone have the right to choose how they die if die they must? Speaking as someone who has worked with sick people for decades, I have to say that I believe they do. My point is that Irene has chosen this way out, and in context of the likely event of her turning into a walker post mortem it can also be argued that her choice is one that would benefit the rest of humanity. It is in the interest of the survivors and those who want to survive the ZA that there not be another walker if it can be prevented.

    We see like, two magazines in Carley's purse (and we never see her carry anything else), she's not exactly lugging around a crate of ammunition. That does put an upper limit on how much she realistically has with her, so it is a legitimate concern. It's a survival scenario: that weapon and its ammunition is not only the group's primary method of self-defense, but potentially its only method for gathering food as well (i.e. hunting) as well. Your right to choose how you die stops when it interferes with my ability to stay alive.

    That said, I could've justified the use of a round (though I can understand why others wouldn't), but the way the choice was presented; i.e. give the crazy acting woman the group's only gun, the answer will be "no" all day long.
  • edited August 2012
    There's already been an Irene thread.
  • edited August 2012
    3) Bullets are precious in times like this, I would actually have rather used the axe I had, I mean a bullet or just quickly one chop to the neck you wouldn't feel it right?

    Actually, she would feel it, and she'd be in agony for a minute or two before she expired. Killing her with the axe would have been about twice as messy as chopping the teacher's leg off in episode 2.

    Also, for those of you saying that ammo is in limited supply, somehow I think that we'll never run out of ammo; or if we do, it will be unavoidable and our actions have no influence on it.
  • edited August 2012
    craftyard wrote: »
    Actually, she would feel it, and she'd be in agony for a minute or two before she expired. Killing her with the axe would have been about twice as messy as chopping the teacher's leg off in episode 2.

    Also, for those of you saying that ammo is in limited supply, somehow I think that we'll never run out of ammo; or if we do, it will be unavoidable and our actions have no influence on it.

    plus the did rescue mark from an army base so logic denotes the got some more ammo/guns in the process
  • edited August 2012
    All she had to do is wait until they came back with some good drugs.:)
  • edited August 2012
    I don't think I lacked compassion when I spared her life. Ideally, the survivors could have believed there was still a chance to save her. It's the same way Rick in the comics tried to to save the lives of Allen and Dale. Even when Rick saw that amputation may not work from failing to save Allen, he still did it when the same thing happened to Dale and it saved his life.

    While Irene's wound is different, it's not far fetched to think that someone would want to help save her life instead of just euthanizing her. I like to think it along the lines of Lee's comments to Glenn after the Irene event that we shouldn't just let everyone give up hope in dark times. Without hope, what is the point of survival?
  • edited August 2012
    zgamer wrote: »
    I don't think I lacked compassion when I spared her life. Ideally, the survivors could have believed there was still a chance to save her. It's the same way Rick in the comics tried to to save the lives of Allen and Dale. Even when Rick saw that amputation may not work from failing to save Allen, he still did it when the same thing happened to Dale and it saved his life.

    While Irene's wound is different, it's not far fetched to think that someone would want to help save her life instead of just euthanizing her. I like to think it along the lines of Lee's comments to Glenn after the Irene event that we shouldn't just let everyone give up hope in dark times. Without hope, what is the point of survival?

    hear, hear!

    The right and honourable gentleman from Idaho has made a good point which I can only echo in short.

    Without hope what is the point of survival. Killing that women is killing hope.
  • edited August 2012
    plus the did rescue mark from an army base so logic denotes the got some more ammo/guns in the process

    Mark was Chair Force, not Army. Likewise, we tend not to keep weapons and ammunition laying about the place, if you're not carrying it, odds are it's locked in an armory. Plus there's the fact we don't see a single military-grade weapon among the group...
  • edited August 2012
    I let her shoot herself. Tho, I would rather have done it myself.

    Recap here, yes, we only have the one gun and limited ammo at this point of the story, but we had just killed 6-7 walkers without the use of the gun.. so
    we're still at a + for the ammo.

    At this point in the story everyone is still under the impression that once you are bitten, you turn. Period.

    Shooting her in the head would prevent her from becoming a walker, with the potential to spread the "disease" making more walkers.

    All of those things, with the added.. putting her out of her mental anguish, was appropriate in my opinion. I've watched two of my grandparents die slow agonizing deaths through cancer. I watched as my eldest brother died a slow agonizing death with MS.. and I've watched close friends die long, drawn out, painful deaths in Hospice. I firmly believe in the 'right to die' aspect, and again.. as a preventative measure for other walkers... Definitely the right thing to do, at the time, with the information had.
  • edited August 2012
    I gave her the gun.She would have died anyway,she was desperate and seemed to have suffered a lot already.Wanted to help her,otherwise she would just suffer and endure the pain until eventually,she would die and turn into a walker. :)

    ...anyways,that would be one less walker to deal with lol. :D
  • edited August 2012
    I gave her the gun without a second thought. I believe in a person's choice to end their life when they have a life ending disease. As lee, i think their is no cure, so she was going to turn and die. that was her fate, and if she wan't to die before that, then I was in support of that.
  • edited August 2012
    I didn't want to risk the noise of the gunshot. I knew it would attract walkers.
  • edited August 2012
    My first thought was that I didn't want to give her the gun, cause I didn't want to "waste to ammo". But then I thought, well she's gonna turn anyways, so it wouldn't really be a waste, so I let her do it lol.
  • edited August 2012
    The-J23 wrote: »
    I didn't want to risk the noise of the gunshot. I knew it would attract walkers.

    I agree. :) But most of the walkers near the building were already killed...and even if you don't give her the gun,she'll shot her self,so I guess its pretty much the same lol. :D
  • edited August 2012
    I gave Irene the gun. It was her life, therefore it was her choice; and the circumstances were compelling. I do not believe, as some appear to, that personal preferences or choices necessarily place constraints on the actions of other people.
  • edited August 2012
    It was an easy choice for me, based on empathy rather than on what would necessarily be good for the group (though if our lives truly hang on the expenditure of one bullet I figure we're screwed anyway.)

    All I saw was a woman who wanted to die, who would've suffered a painful death if I hadn't capped her and a horrible undeath. The moral arrow swung only one way.

    Despite Glenn's totally inappropriate comments regarding the fact she had a boyfriend (really, dude, how desperate are you to get laid?) I was pretty much immune to whatever anyone else said regarding her fate - she was doomed and she needed someone to help her out. I'd have preferred to use the axe, but those are the breaks.

    Ultimately, I had no qualms about easing her passage (though not in the way Glenn would've wanted).
  • edited August 2012
    well I wanted to cut her head off with my mighty axe... as someone said before, I felt it was to soon to say bye bye to the bullet...

    Heck even if I could NOT chop her head off, I could atleast throw her off the balcony head first... then she is injured (goes to heaven), and I get to kill another Walker...
  • edited August 2012
    I totally gave her the gun. My Lee thought about the same way I would of thought of it and that is "What if I was bitten and infected?" I would of begged someone to put me out of my misery and if they couldn't do it, I would have gladly blown my own brains out.
  • edited August 2012
    chaz99 wrote: »
    I was wondering why such a high % refused to let Irene have the gun and take her own life, knowing what was ahead for her.

    Most interested in the ideas/opinions of those who refused to give her the gun, but all input welcome, as it should be.

    Discuss and explain.

    I wanted to save ammo, the game misunderstood me.
    I'd have gladly lent her the axe :)
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