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[Spoilers] He caused EVERYTHING

posted by CocaColin on - last edited - Viewed by 4K users
And by 'he', I mean Ben. If you think about it, him stealing the meds caused the bandits to attack the Inn, which attracted the Walkers, which happened to bite Duck. Duck's bite had caused Katjaa to suicide as she didn't want to live with her son dying. On top of that, Lilly shot Carley/Doug because of the traitor in the group. She shot Carley, because Carley stood up for Ben, where as Doug took the bullet for Ben. That had then caused Lilly to be abandoned. So again, who is to blame? Ben. It would have been best off if we kicked his ass out of the group in Episode 2, before he officially joined...because of one single person, we lost four/five people.

Lilly, Carley/Doug, Katjaa, and Duck. :(

Screw Ben >_<
36 Comments - Linear Discussion: Classic Style
  • What if Ben DIDN'T?! The bandits could have came in and killed everyone. Ben was dumb how he went about it, but in a way he was helping the group from getting overrun by the bandits.
  • Basically, were all sons of bitches. What Lee did is good for the group but everyone is just the causer of bad events.
    Ben- Totally lied to us and was out for a friend that was never real and didn't consult the group.
    Lilly- Snapped because of all this shit were going through, and murdered ( in which i think) cold blood
    I think the pink x represents that there package is here at the motor inn. Ben hid the package in the hole with OUR survival meds. Lee took the evidence that the traitor was among the group AND how was it there meds, we didn't exactly go to their base so we didnt steal shit. The bandits came to the hole and didnt see it there so they kept our people as hostages. Ben had an agreement with the bandits so it isnt really Lee's fault for what happens after. So yes Ben is the one at fault.
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    shammack Telltale Staff
    Red Panda;660602 said:
    And you don't know if the meds were the pushing point. They are killers. The guy Lee is tasked with distracting while Lilly gets in position killed one of his own on a whim. He's obviously unstable. You can't say Lee's actions were the cause anymore than you could accurately predict an alternative future.
    I basically agree with you that ultimately the only ones who can really be said to be at fault are the bandits. But just for the sake of argument: Lee didn't know that taking the bag would cause the bandits to attack, but he did know about the bandits' deal with the St. Johns back when he killed them/left them to die. Granted, under the circumstances there weren't a lot of other options, but it was ultimately his actions that turned the bandits into a threat by cutting off their access to the stuff they were getting from the dairy.

    I think Ben was trying to help by paying them off -- he handled it really badly, but it was a problem that somebody was going to have to deal with eventually no matter what (unless they'd left the motor inn first like Kenny wanted, I guess). Ben's an idiot, but I wouldn't consider him a traitor.
  • i'm so glad i didn't give ben an energy bar in episode 2 right now!

    hershal said we would have to depend on the honesty of strangers, and he was right. honesty/trust is a two way street, and this kid needs to be ran over for what he caused in our group.
  • It wasn't Bens fault the bandits attacked, It wasn't Lees fault either, no one in the group was at fault.

    The blame lies solely on the bandits heads. They didn't have to coerce Ben into giving them the meds and they didn't have to attack because Lee took them. They had the choice to do the right thing both times, but they didn't.
  • Red Panda;660520 said:
    You two ever heard of infinite regression? You can keep going back in the chain of events, finding someone to blame.

    And you two chose to blame the victim? How could Lee have possibly known the consequences of taking the bag?

    Lee didn't kill anybody. Lee didn't make any covert deals. He tried to save lives by finding out what was happening with the medicine and you blame him for everything that happened? I just can't follow the logic.

    If anybody is at fault, it's Ben. His actions invited this by helping the bandits for his naive belief that they had his friend and he could help. That's just a fact.

    You can't blame anybody else for the consequences of that, especially victims, like Lee, except the bandits, who are ultimately responsible for this thanks to their criminal behavior.
    Very good point, you could blame the attacks on the parents of the bandits because if they hadn't procreated, the bandits wouldn't exist, and so on and so forth..
  • I think we can all agree to blame it on Robert Kirkman's dark, dark imagination. And maybe the bandits.
  • Christoaster;660545 said:
    Heck someone said in this thread that stopping the Dairy Farm is what caused all of this, which I don't quite get, because what would they do? Just stay in the meat locker to die? Seriously, he did whatever he could to survive.
    Well, my real point was simply to show how silly it is to go that far back to look for someone to blame. I'm not saying Lee shouldn't have done what he did. But the fact remains that he could have made different choices. He could have not dealt with the St. Johns at all. He could have backed out and left the farm at any time up until dinner. He could have kept his mouth shut and ate Mark. He could have ditched the farm as soon as he got out of the meat locker and left Katjaa and Duck to the St. Johns. Obviously, those may not be good choices. But they may have kept the bandits' deal with the St. Johns going. In which case, they probably wouldn't have come after the motel.

    Of course, we wouldn't blame Lee for the bandit attack because there's no way he could have predicted everything that would happen. But likewise, there's no way Ben could have predicted that his deal with the bandits would lead to Duck getting bit, Lilly going crazy (or crazier?) and shooting Carley, or Katjaa committing suicide.
    Red Panda;660578 said:
    That doesn't make any sense. Lee taking the meds wasn't the cause. The bandits being murderous thieves is the cause.

    And you, or anybody else, can't say what they would have or wouldn't have done. All you can do is assume they would be pleased and not attack but you don't know that. They could have decided they want more supplies and attack anyway.

    Like I said, the only cause was the bandits being amoral.
    Granted, the bandits are ultimately responsible for their own actions. But saying that the bandits might have attacked anyway even if Lee hadn't taken the meds just seems silly. That was clearly the entire reason for the attack. They had made a deal for the supplies. They saw that the supplies weren't where they were supposed to be. They assumed that Ben had backed out of the deal. So they attacked. Otherwise, there would have been no reason for them to attack. Dead people can't pay after all. Amoral they may be, but we haven't seen any indication that they just go around killing people for no reason. People generally don't behave like that. Well, except for Lilly.

    And in any case, I still wouldn't describe Ben as an "accomplice." You say he was working with them. That makes no sense. He was giving them supplies to prevent them from doing what they did. Saying they were working together is kind of like saying that someone being mugged is in cahoots with his mugger because he hands over his wallet instead of choosing to get shot in the face.
    Red Panda;660602 said:
    Look, whoever you think should go to jail is to blame.
    I don't understand why you keep bringing this up. It's not like there are any courts of law where you're going to prosecute someone in TWD. And even if there were, I don't think most people here are talking about legal responsibility. It's entirely possible to cause something bad to happen, whether intentionally or not, without ever committing an actual crime.
  • i think it's down to the car if it was the bandits.
  • Overwatch;660526 said:
    Honestly, it wasn't Bens fault that the Inn got overrun.
    Wrong, it was. The most stupid thing he did came before Lee set everything in motion by taking that bag. He didn't let the group know not to interfere because the deal was for their safety. Something more than worth mentioning even if nobody asks. He didn't give anyone a chance to prepare for an organised (possibly scheduled) bandit attack as a result of hiding the deal. He let Lillys paranoia escalate beyond anybodys control. And that was just the things he could've done to prevent the problems before the episode even began.

    During the episode he at least had the chance to mention after the escape. Ben thought he was clear of suspicion until the RV ride. Had he come clean, Carley/Doug surely would've lived. Of course Ben would've come off worst but neither would he have been likely to see the bullet treatment if he had calmly come clean and explained himself. His popularity would've plunged, despite his best intentions surely.

    His further, well-disscussed stupidity has been more than established over the course of the episode. So far he's a liability. He's helped with nothing but eating our food. But plenty of damage is done.
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