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Episode 5 Disappointment (vent here) **SPOILERS**

posted by MaroubraDave on - last edited - Viewed by 8.6K users
Firstly i would like to say great game and a fantastic concept. However the ending i would say is not so great. While it is very well made and certainly tugs at your heart strings, I didn't play the game and wait for the ending only to find out i die anyway... Now i know people may argue that you didn't see lee actually turn so maybe he will be ok, but the fact you left it this way is really a let down to the series. I was really looking forward to the last episode but in all honesty it just brought me down and i kinda wish i stopped playing at episode 4. :confused: There should be an alternative ending where you can at least live... Just my opinion.
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  • TWDfan1199;730663 said:
    I don't like how choices really don't matter. Why does cutting Lee's arm off not work? In the TV show it worked with cutting off Hershal's leg. It made it pointless to cut off his arm,.
    to much time had passed b4 u cut it, hints the name no time left
  • Pellet;730726 said:
    to much time had passed b4 u cut it, hints the name no time left
    None of which negates the complaint that cutting Lee's arm off had no impact on the story.

    If anything, it makes the decision even less relevant and raises the question of why bother having the option there at all if it wasn't going to mean anything to the story?
  • BlankCanvasDJ;727132 said: defeated the villain, you saved someone by sacrificing yourself, you finished your story. By YOUR own criteria, you've accomplished a lot.

    I DON'T think you need to accomplish something by the end of a game for it to be a good game, but I disagree that you haven't accomplished anything by the end of this one.
    Lee still died believing that he failed. He died not knowing if Clementine found Christa or not. How the hell can he rest in peace? His core object was to reunite Clementine with Christa so he could die knowing she was in safe hands, he failed to accomplish this. Do you remember what he told Clementine when he left her house in episode 1? He told her that he wouldn't her leave alone, meaning she wouldn't be by herself. Not being able to keep his promise would have made him feel like he had failed in those dying moments. He left her alone and afraid. It's only by chance that she happened to see Omid and Christa, in the distance if that is them in the first place. We don't know for sure. They could be zombie versions of Omid and Christa. regardless Lee did not finish his mission. He helped her defeat the reanimated guard and said his goodbyes knowing that she was going out into an over run city. From his point view her chances of finding Omid and Christa were pretty slim, he didn't even know if they had made it to the train. Like Lee we didn't find true ressolve in the sense that neither Lee or the gamer saw her safely reunited with Christa and Omid. That is poor for Lee and poor for a season finale.
  • Evinshir;730661 said:
    Because none of that is meant to matter. He's a plot device to force Lee to question his motivations throughout the story. The problem is that plot devices are meant to be subtle and not obvious that they are contrivance. Unfortunately he doesn't really work once you start asking questions about Radioman/The Stranger's motivations and location at any given point.

    Also, sadly, it would seem that TTG's only defence is the "he's crazy so it doesn't need to make sense" defence. Which is kind of weak. I wish they had put a bit more thought into that part of the narrative.
    I get that but like you said, once he plays out; his motives for following Lee don't make that much sense. That guy must have been one heckuva tracker to follow Lee and crew.
  • BlankCanvasDJ;727109 said:
    For the journey, not the ending. Some of the greatest stories ever told have tragic, hopeless endings. Should Romeo and Juliet have lived happily ever after? Should Gatsby have won the love of his life? This was a hopeless story from the very beginning (if you didn't think so, you've never read or watched The Walking Dead) and the fact that Lee managed to find any redemption by the end is an accomplishment.

    It's not a game you win.
    But Romeo and Juliet was conclusive. You knew the fate of the characters by the end of the book. There was no ambiguity. You knew they were dead and why. Therefore the ending of Romeo Juliet is more fulfilling than the ending of the no time left episode, also when you read Romeo and Juliet you weren't given choices for what the characters did. I don't think a book is comparable to a game considering you invest both effort and time playing a game you only invest time in reading a book unless the person is mentally challanged in which case Romeo and Juliet isn't the book for them.

    As far as Lee getting redemption i'm not sure that I agree he did. He died unable to keep his promise of not leaving Clementine alone which he made when he left her house and he didn't successfully reunite her with Christa which was his goal when he left Christa to find her. He died not knowing her fate. It's not just a tragic end for Lee it's a failing one. He couldn't continue to keep Clementine safe so she saved herself from the city's horde, escaping to the city's outskirts on her own. Lee did not play as big a part in her escape as he should have. He only got her half way. She did the rest and would have had to go through far more zombies than the one he helped her defeat before he died.
  • I wouldn't exclude lee and Clem surviving together as long as there's hope; that's just the way it went down. I was sure left with the sensation of no answers or lack of some closure so to speak; not knowing what happens to clem. i would really want to know.
  • Chuck's Guitar;727380 said:
    I have to say, after hearing that the tentative release time for ep. 5 would be in December, I was worried that it might feel rushed with a November date. My fears were right, obviously. If you thought Lee had any chance of surviving, you're delusional at best. What kills me is that the ending felt so terribly rushed. There was no real epilogue - and a dialogue-less scene with two unidentified characters doesn't count, either.

    What's the point of saving Ben in episode 4 if he inevitably dies in 5? I was waiting for him to redeem himself ("I just want to help") and I had such strong confidence invested in him only for him to be snuffed out like a nobody. Towards the end I expected Kenny and Ben (or at least Kenny) to show up, Kenny having had pulled a Daryl and using his last round to make a walker "blanket" to spare his and Ben's life.

    Why include the option to amputate Lee's arm if it ultimately changes nothing? I went through with the arm chop, though disturbing, I felt it necessary to do so to see my final mission through. I'm surprised that Lilly and a few other characters didn't make a final appearance, as well.

    Campman was a pretty big disappointment as well. While his introduction teaches an extremely valuable lesson about "even the small things can come back around", he just didn't have a convincing leg to stand on in terms of being a believable antagonist. I honestly wasn't expecting a character of such irrelevance to be the "man behind the mask". All in all, great series, but it's very obvious the final episode had less of a cooking time than the other four. The synergy and emotional connections of the previous episodes were more or less nonexistent. Very disappointing.

    RIP Lee Everett.
    That's just it I didn't feel that "Campman"teaches an extremely valuable lesson about how even the small things can come back around because I didn't do anything that should have had negitive repercussions, since I was aware that Clementine was always watching. I made a point not do kill anyone but let others do the killing. I wanted Ben dead but chose not to kill him because I knew Kenny would expose me and tell Clementine. I wanted to kill the st John brothers but knew that they were in no position to escape the farm and they were going to be eaten by zombies. I didn't take the food because Clementine didn't want us to and I didn't agree to kill Larry because Clementine was watching, the same way Rick didn't want to kill Randall in front of Carl in the show. The only thing "Campman" could accuse me of was choosing to save Carly instead of Doug which was a lame reason to conclude he was a better role model and carer for Clementine than me. Really I was being punished for what the others in the group had done, he commented on Kenny and Kat when he was saying he needed to rescue Clementine from us, yet he was adamant that I needed to be punished. What he was saying didn't fit with how I had been playing the game. I first noticed this in episode 4 when Vernon switched on me. I didn't overtly lie about having medical supplies or threaten him, I reasoned with him, referring to Clementine as being my daughter. I didn't say she was my biological daughter. So I didn't lie. Even Bree approved of me and spoke cival because I didn't lie or threaten Vernon. He was fine at the end of the game and then there was some screen glitching and his mannerism completely changed towards me and he started accusing me of being a bad carer and said Clementine wasn't my daughter even though no one confirmed that to him from the group.
  • Pellet;730726 said:
    to much time had passed b4 u cut it, hints the name no time left
    Seriously, this is bullshit. You have absolutely no clue about the infection, how it spreads, whnether it's a virus, bacteria or space magic. All you know is that people only turn if they die from whatever causes that don't damage the brain/head or when they get bitten.

    Don't run around telling people that it's unrealistic if you cut a bitten person's arm off and they survive, when the setting is a zombie apocalypse where dead people magically reanimate and try to eat the living. It might come across a little bit ridiculous, you know?

    Cut Lee's arm off -> Lee survives.
    Don't cut his arm off -> Lee turns.

    Making him turn regardless of what you do renders your choice useless and this is nothing but lazy writing, especially since you had absolutely no control about the way he got bitten. I was 100% sure there is going to be a walker near the walkie talkie and I would had grabbed the shovel or a stick, or simply approached the trash bin from the side where I can see what's there, but the game didn't let me. This is just lame. They sacrificed Lee in order to make the story as emotional as possible and as far as I can see they succeeded in making you guys cry rivers. While the story wasn't bad for a movie or a comic, it was terrible for a video game where your experience is supposed to be tailored by how you play. It simply wasn't at all and I was very disappointed that they didn't manage to make choices truly matter, not even in the final episode! I find the ending lacking. It's just lame and lazy.

    Personally, I didn't like the plot from episode 3 onwards when they killed Carley no matter what you did, but I could live with it. However, killing Lee in a cutscene and give the players absolutely no choice to get the ending they wanted, the ending that is truly tailored to their gameplay, well that's just lazy and lame. Dunno why you folks play video games but I play them because they're interactive. If I just want somebody to tell me a story where I my decisions have absolutely ZERO impact on I'll go read a book or watch a movie.
  • Evinshir;727446 said:
    What disappointed me was that all the decisions made throughout the game and even in episode 5 really amounted to nothing. It was all smoke and mirrors.

    I'm cool with Lee dying, it felt an appropriate close to the story after all. But I didn't like finding out that the same characters die at the same point in episode 5 regardless of who went with you or what decisions you made.

    That just made the emotional impact of their deaths feel cheap. What's the point getting upset about Ben's death if there was no way that he could have survived? It would have been better if it turned out that not bringing Kenny or Omid along for the final part of the game meant that Ben survived the fall. Or if Ben died, Kenny manages to escape...

    I had hoped that the conversation on the hospital roof had been more relevant with Lee being able to pick in the end who Clem would end up escaping with.

    Ultimately, I don't think having the same ending and epilogue regardless of your choices was a good idea. It negated the whole point and showed a failure to understand what it was about The Walking Dead that made it such an appealing game to a lot of people. Yes, the story was a good one. But this is a game too and as such the medium means stories can be told in ways that you can't do with film or television.

    Good storytelling isn't just about the journey. If a story has a weak ending, that is what the audience takes away with them. The feelings that the ending left them with. I loved so much of the game, but learning that my choices didn't have any real impact on the epilogue... That there was no way to save Kenny or Ben by making different choices... That changed this from Game of the Year to just another good game for me.

    It also makes it less appealing to bother playing through the game again to see how things change because I know it all turns out the same in the end.

    Bioware made the same mistake on a much larger scale with Mass Effect (with the added insult of a terribly written ending, at least TWD had a good ending that fitted the story.)

    So yeah. I was keen to rewind my episode to see what I could do differently, but seeing that it doesn't have any meaningful impact on events has meant I'm really not bothered with playing it again. Doesn't seem worth it right now. And I don't think that is how I should be feeling after a game that claimed to tailor the story around my choices.
    I agree 100% Telltale blatently lied. The game was good any way they didn't need to lie to sell the game. The TV show will sell this game and fans of the comic will buy this game. Telltale stated quite clearly that your going to have a complete different set of characters by the end of the game based on your choices from someone else's play through. That is a an out right lie. There is no way to have anyone other than Omid and Christa survive episode 5 assuming the silhouettes we see are of them in the first place. The game was good but would have been great if the survivors we had at the end of the game varied based on what we did as originally stated when episode 1 debuted.
  • cfergs;727556 said:
    I can't believe that people are upset with the ending. The greatest thing about this game is that you are placed in a world that keeps you on your toes pretty much at all times to add a sense of realism to the experience. It would diminish that feeling if you knew that you were invincible. Too many games, books, and movies these days have a happy ending, and it's nice to have some variety at times.
    Great work Telltale! I'm looking forward to whatever's in store for Clementine in the next season.

    What questions are there? Any questions that I can think of would be explained at the start of the next season.
    Rick Grimes isn't invincible but he's alive after 103 issues he's had his hand cut off and been shot at least twice. Expecting Lee to last 5 episodes is not unrealistic. Lee survived the zombie apacolypse for only 13 weeks. Rick has been surviving the zombie apacolypse for over a year as has his 9 year old son Carl.
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