F*** Kenny

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Comments

  • edited December 2012
    People are still deaf about the FACT that, it is not the issue here: killing Larry.
    The issue here is killing Larry in cold blood in front of his daughter without leaving any little God damn minute to say goodbye. Lilly would be ok if she could spread her last moments with her most beloved (and only left) family member. Maybe some last words...
    I even don't mention the possibility of saving Larry.
    Such rudeness and selfishness. This is nothing about "hard things must be done sometimes" kinda quote.
    This is all primitive and most unrespectful thing to do.
    If I were Lilly, I'd kill Kenny in that meat locker by my bare hands.

    And please don't try to tell us fairytales, Kenny did not do it for the well of the group but he mostly did it to take revenge from Larry for the argument of Duck's bitten issue. He always wanted to get rid of Lilly-Larry coalition, as he is desperately desiring of that leader role of the group (which I don't know why and with which faculty?), he got the chance and used it precisely.

    And I'm so sad by writing these but, in the end Kenny got what he deserved in his pathetic life, he died knowing that he lost his own family in front of his very own eyes by his very own mistakes.
    I'm so sorry for Katjaa and Duck, no doubt.
  • edited December 2012
    Ok, I just want to say, people who support Lily don't seem to understand that Kenny isn't a coward or an idiot and they don't seem to understand that Lily is flawed and, imo, even more so than Kenny. People who prefer Kenny seem to understand that he isn't perfect, Kenny haters can't accept the fact that he is a loyal and brave guy (even if he isn't loyal to Lee in your save.) Kenny makes logical choices (except when its understandably about his family), Lily makes choices based on her own emotions. Kenny's choice is the lesser of 2 evils when comparing him to Lily. He knows that, if Larry came back as a zombie, he would most likely kill them all and , therefore, his family would've been in danger. Also, going by how quickly people turn, I believe people start turning as soon as they die meaning that Larry couldn't have been saved anyway.

    Lily is shown not to think things through because she kills Carley/Doug because they don't agree with her; how can you defend that? Its cold hearted and stupid, she ruined the entire group by doing that. Kenny is in no way worse, he did what he did to protect everyone, Lily did it because she was angry and didn't act rationally at all. Even if you don't side with Kenny, he doesn't kill anyone for no reason and he doesn't put the whole group in danger...the only person he can 'betray' is Lee. That is also understandable, Kenny doesn't risk his life to save you 'cause he only saves people who are family or friends and, if you try to save Larry, you are going against him and putting everyone at risk so why should he risk his life to save you when he needs it to save his family?

    People keep saying Kenny was a coward when it came to trying to save Shawn...he wasn't. The apocalypse had only started a few days ago, so Kenny hadn't had a lot of experience with dealing with zombies. He was willing to risk his life to save his son but not risk his life to save a complete stranger who was in a very bad situation; not cowardly

    Also, if Larry had become a zombie, you wouldn't have been able to kill him that easily. People keep saying you could keep him down and manage to kill him...how? The only weapon you have is a salt block that slowed Kenny down and required a Larry who wasn't moving. Larry didn't need to get up straight away to deal some damage, he does have arms; both Lee and Lily were in an easy grabbing distance. Lee would've tried to keep Clem alive, Lily would be panicking and Kenny would have been the only rational one when facing a zombie Larry. He had the right idea, though gruesome, when removing Larry as a threat. Remember how much trouble Lee has with zombies when they grab him, needing help or a weapon, and remember that, if you save Duck, it requires both YOU and KENNY to get him free from a zombie who is reaching over a fence and hasn't got a very good grip on Duck. Mark also mentions that he would hate to be alone in a room with a live Larry who has human moral qualities...being in a room with a stronger, zombie Larry, determined to eat you, would've been horrible. And they are stronger as zombies, they can tear through your stomach and get to your guts quickly.

    Anyway, no matter how loyal to Lily you are...she betrays you and endangers the entire group. However, Kenny won't endanger the group even if you aren't loyal to him and if you are loyal to him (DOESN'T actually need to be 100%) he becomes the best friend you could hope for in a zombie apocalypse.
  • edited December 2012
    dukeleto wrote: »
    People are still deaf about the FACT that, it is not the issue here: killing Larry.
    The issue here is killing Larry in cold blood in front of his daughter without leaving any little God damn minute to say goodbye. Lilly would be ok if she could spread her last moments with her most beloved (and only left) family member. Maybe some last words...
    I even don't mention the possibility of saving Larry.
    Such rudeness and selfishness. This is nothing about "hard things must be done sometimes" kinda quote.
    This is all primitive and most unrespectful thing to do.
    If I were Lilly, I'd kill Kenny in that meat locker by my bare hands.

    And please don't try to tell us fairytales, Kenny did not do it for the well of the group but he mostly did it to take revenge from Larry for the argument of Duck's bitten issue. He always wanted to get rid of Lilly-Larry coalition, as he is desperately desiring of that leader role of the group (which I don't know why and with which faculty?), he got the chance and used it precisely.

    And I'm so sad by writing these but, in the end Kenny got what he deserved in his pathetic life, he died knowing that he lost his own family in front of his very own eyes by his very own mistakes.
    I'm so sorry for Katjaa and Duck, no doubt.

    Larry could have been seconds from turning and biting people, they didn't have any time to talk sense into Lilly and then let her have her goodbyes. It took Kenny a while to accept Duck's fate but he had time, Lilly didn't. Waiting for Lilly would have risked everyone's lives and its not worth it. How stupid would it be if Clem/Lilly/Kenny/Lee got bit just because you wanted Lilly to have her goodbyes.

    And the whole idea that Kenny wanted Larry dead from ep 1 is just speculation with little proof. He was all for getting Larry's heart medicine immediately after what happened with Duck and his face after using the salt lick says it all. Kenny was looking out for the entire group and his family when he stopped Larry from turning, and he definitely didn't deserve to die.
  • edited December 2012
    YamiRaziel wrote: »
    So just kill him because he's handicapped? Is that what you tell yourself to feel better about your choice? It's funny considering people are usually disgusted with Crawford...

    Larry had no pulse and wasn't breathing. That isn't handicapped, that is clinically dead.

    There was absolutely zero chance that Larry's life could have been saved, and he was a walker waiting to happen. In typical Kenny fashion it was done without tact or consideration for Lilly's grief, but he was right when he said that Larry needed to be put down. There was nothing that could be done for him *except* making sure that he didn't become a walker.
  • edited December 2012
    dukeleto wrote: »
    People are still deaf about the FACT that, it is not the issue here: killing Larry.
    The issue here is killing Larry in cold blood in front of his daughter without leaving any little God damn minute to say goodbye. Lilly would be ok if she could spread her last moments with her most beloved (and only left) family member. Maybe some last words...
    I even don't mention the possibility of saving Larry.
    Such rudeness and selfishness. This is nothing about "hard things must be done sometimes" kinda quote.
    This is all primitive and most unrespectful thing to do.
    If I were Lilly, I'd kill Kenny in that meat locker by my bare hands.

    And please don't try to tell us fairytales, Kenny did not do it for the well of the group but he mostly did it to take revenge from Larry for the argument of Duck's bitten issue. He always wanted to get rid of Lilly-Larry coalition, as he is desperately desiring of that leader role of the group (which I don't know why and with which faculty?), he got the chance and used it precisely.

    And I'm so sad by writing these but, in the end Kenny got what he deserved in his pathetic life, he died knowing that he lost his own family in front of his very own eyes by his very own mistakes.
    I'm so sorry for Katjaa and Duck, no doubt.

    Kenny did not want to kill Larry just so he could take control of the group. He didn't want to kill Larry at all. But he did it because he had to do it. I don't doubt he hated Larry for the incident in the drug store, but that's not why he killed the man! What part of Zombie Apocalypse is so hard to understand? The man was clinicly dead. There was no medicine, the group had no weapons, and they were trapped. Lilly had plenty of time to say goodbye to Larry. I can understand why she didn't give up on him, if it were my father, I probably wouldn't have either, but the fact remains that Larry had been on the ground with no pulse, not breathing, for nearly a minute by the time Lee takes action. How many people is it acceptable to lose just for Lilly to be able to say goodbye? What if she gets bitten? What if Lee does? Even Clem was in danger. Is Clem's life worth Lilly saying goodbye? Because I sure as hell don't think so.

    Kenny did handle the situation pretty poorly after the fact, like in the beginning of Episode 3. He really should have acted better toward Lilly and he went about the situation like an ass in my opinion, but he saved everyone in the meat locker. Precious seconds had already been spent trying to revive Larry with zero response. If Larry had come back, the entire group would have been wiped out just so Lilly could say goodbye. My Lee didn't let that happen. He didn;t let Irene turn when she was bitten, he kept reminding Kenny of the fact that Duck was turning and made him see what was actually happenening, and he didn't let himself turn to perhaps harm someone else in the future. He certainly wasn't going to let Larry kill everyone either.
  • edited December 2012
    Rock114 wrote: »
    Kenny did not want to kill Larry just so he could take control of the group. He didn't want to kill Larry at all. But he did it because he had to do it. I don't doubt he hated Larry for the incident in the drug store, but that's not why he killed the man! What part of Zombie Apocalypse is so hard to understand? The man was clinicly dead. There was no medicine, the group had no weapons, and they were trapped. Lilly had plenty of time to say goodbye to Larry. I can understand why she didn't give up on him, if it were my father, I probably wouldn't have either, but the fact remains that Larry had been on the ground with no pulse, not breathing, for nearly a minute by the time Lee takes action. How many people is it acceptable to lose just for Lilly to be able to say goodbye? What if she gets bitten? What if Lee does? Even Clem was in danger. Is Clem's life worth Lilly saying goodbye? Because I sure as hell don't think so.

    Kenny did handle the situation pretty poorly after the fact, like in the beginning of Episode 3. He really should have acted better toward Lilly and he went about the situation like an ass in my opinion, but he saved everyone in the meat locker. Precious seconds had already been spent trying to revive Larry with zero response. If Larry had come back, the entire group would have been wiped out just so Lilly could say goodbye. My Lee didn't let that happen. He didn;t let Irene turn when she was bitten, he kept reminding Kenny of the fact that Duck was turning and made him see what was actually happenening, and he didn't let himself turn to perhaps harm someone else in the future. He certainly wasn't going to let Larry kill everyone either.

    I strongly recommend you to watch TV series - if you haven't seen them yet, so you can see how people (especially the group leaders) react to those who are about to lose their family members.

    Yes, this is a Zombie Apocalypse which means that it is for everyone, every single person is experiencing the same nightmare and NO ONE is different than the other when you check hard situations, griefs, family issues, etc...

    For further information, please watch Andrea&Amy scene and look for Rick's reaction.
    For more further information, please watch Tyreese&Ben's mother scene- look for Carl's reaction.
    A true leader respects people's feelings.
    Different from these examples, in the game our group was trapped in that meat locker I know, but I think even if a little boy like Carl could treat reasonable with family issues, a man with a family should have known better.
    If it WAS the purpose- blocking Larry from harming anyone in that meat locker- I'd put some salt licks on Larry's different body parts to limit his possible zombie movements than instantly busting Larry's head. Because I HAVE A BRAIN which I can use whenever I need.
    But if it was the purpose to kill him, well it depends...

    On the other hand LEEME was there and I really pissed of when Kenny involved the situation which I was already taking care of.

    Never mind, really you or I will not give up from our own angles on Kenny. So, lets end this discussion. Because you'll SURELY continue to defend a man(by saying he did everything for his family) who were DOING NOTHING to search for an escape while LEEYOU were looking for an exit from that meat locker.
    Pretty please try to remember his words while you were trying to examine the air went and please remember his answer when you asked him if he had any tools on himself suitable to use on those screws.
    Last time I checked he was not looking like a mainstay of a family who was dying by scratching the walls to save his family.

    God forgive Kenny. I hope he has died in that alley (or in dark room) for the well of the universe.
  • edited December 2012
    Well, Let's be real here, both Larry and Kenny were pretty flawed characters (As well as Lily), and in a lot of ways all were pretty ruthless and self-serving.

    Larry is perfectly happy to let both Duck and Lee die when you first meet him. Much like Kenny would later, Larry did not handle the stressful situation well and made a selfish decision to want to throw a child out to die on the off chance he was bit, then punched Lee, hoping that he would die to zombies, becasue he was selfish and thought to protect himself and his daughter from a perceived threat.

    Kenny was the same as Larry, except he was nicer and more cowardly about it. Odds are that Shawn wouldn't have survived even with Kenny's help, but it would have been a lot more possible. However he freaked out and ran. Now in the meat locker he is presented with the same situation, A potential walker and making sure his family is safe. He made the same choice Larry would have if it had been Kenny laying there. Does this make it right?

    Well, You have to consider the situation. There was really no time. They were in a meat locker being held hostage by cannibals, whom as it is mentioned soon after, were just about to come back there and murder some of them. Not to mention they might have been making a duck stew =/ Pardon the joke. If they had left Lily have any more time, even if he hadn't reanimated by then, The dairy boys would have killed them. Consider the amount of time that scene takes place in, minus the "game time" it was really only a matter of minutes between the two aforementioned events.

    However, Kenny is still a hypocrite and a generally poor person. Let's fast forward to the Duck getting bit, now even though it's a bit absurd. Kenny can actually cause game over becasue of his stubbornness. He puts everyone in danger and possibly kills them all by pushing Lee out after they argue, allowing Duck to reanimate and murder everyone. This is becasue, like Larry, he is a self-serving man who will not even think about the hypocritical nature of his actions. Let's be honest, he is the cause of Katjaa's suicide. He wasn't there for her when she needed him and if he had the strength to handle the situation, she would have been able to find comfort in him. but he was a weak man who didn't want to face reality, and in turn, she couldn't either.

    Speed forward to the attic, Lee is bit, Kenny considers dealing with him. It's pretty crazy that he would entertain the notion after everything that has happened. Even if he doesn't do it.

    Then his final sacrifice. Does his giving his life up make up for his actions? It's hard to say, in the end he was just a human. Is anyone in a position to judge him when they are playing a character who murdered a senator? The game teaches us, if anything, that people are capable of making life ending mistakes. Ben, Lee, Lily, Larry, Kenny, I mean come on, The story is full of characters who make selfish decisions for the good of themselves or the people they care about.
  • edited December 2012
    dukeleto wrote: »
    I strongly recommend you to watch TV series - if you haven't seen them yet, so you can see how people (especially the group leaders) react to those who are about to lose their family members.

    Yes, this is a Zombie Apocalypse which means that it is for everyone, every single person is experiencing the same nightmare and NO ONE is different than the other when you check hard situations, griefs, family issues, etc...

    For further information, please watch Andrea&Amy scene and look for Rick's reaction.
    For more further information, please watch Tyreese&Ben's mother scene- look for Carl's reaction.
    A true leader respects people's feelings.
    Different from these examples, in the game our group were trapped in that meat locker I know, but I think even if a little boy like Carl could treat reasonable with family issues, a man with a family should have known better.
    If it WAS the purpose- blocking Larry from harming anyone in that meat locker- I'd put some salt licks on Larry's different body parts to limit his possible zombie movements than instantly busting Larry's head. Because I HAVE A BRAIN which I can use whenever I need.
    But if it was the purpose to kill him, well it depends...

    On the other hand LEEME was there and I really pissed of when Kenny involved the situation which I was already taking care of.

    Never mind, really you or I will not give up from our own angles on Kenny. So, lets end this discussion. Because you'll SURELY continue to defend a man(by saying he did everything for his family) who were DOING NOTHING to search for an escape while LEEYOU were looking for an exit from that meat locker.
    Pretty please try to remember his words while you were trying to examine the air went and please remember his answer when you asked him if he had any tools on himself suitable to use on those screws.
    Last time I checked he was not looking like a mainstay of a family who was dying by scratching the walls to save his family.

    God forgive Kenny. I hope he has died in that alley (or in dark room) for the well of the universe.

    Read Dukeleto's post again. He's absolutely right. A true leader knows how to react to such situations. If you're incapable, well, you let somebody else handle it.
    As Dukeleto mentioned, there were plenty of ways to block reanimated Larry from harming people, if he did return as a walker. Lilly was standing closest to him but I'm sure she would rather get bitten than see her father being killed in such a brutal way.
    You have to understand that Kenny wasn't protecting anyone in that meatlocker scene. If that were truly his intentions, then in ep.3 when his son got bitten, he would've have stopped the RV and dealt with it right away. He knew his son was bitten, he knew there wasn't any chance Duck would survive and he knew he was putting everyone in that RV in danger by letting Duck stay. Regardless, he let him stay because those same rules and survival instincts do not apply when his family is concerned. That's why I hate his personality and I can never forgive him for what he did.
    Nobody knew when exactly was Duck gonna turn. It could've happened while everybody was asleep. The least that could have happened was Katjaa getting bitten. She wouldn't let go of her son, no matter whether he turned while in her arms or not.
  • edited December 2012
    YamiRaziel wrote: »
    Read Dukeleto's post again. He's absolutely right. A true leader knows how to react to such situations. If you're incapable, well, you let somebody else handle it.
    As Dukeleto mentioned, there were plenty of ways to block reanimated Larry from harming people, if he did return as a walker. Lilly was standing closest to him but I'm sure she would rather get bitten than see her father being killed in such a brutal way.


    There was no way to restrain Zombie Larry. Salt licks wouldn't have worked anymore than putting bricks on a person's arms or legs would pin them down. Any slight movement is going to send them topling over to the side, and the weight of a couple salt licks wasn't going to keep his arms and legs pinned.
  • edited December 2012
    YamiRaziel wrote: »
    Read Dukeleto's post again. He's absolutely right. A true leader knows how to react to such situations. If you're incapable, well, you let somebody else handle it.
    As Dukeleto mentioned, there were plenty of ways to block reanimated Larry from harming people, if he did return as a walker. Lilly was standing closest to him but I'm sure she would rather get bitten than see her father being killed in such a brutal way.
    You have to understand that Kenny wasn't protecting anyone in that meatlocker scene. If that were truly his intentions, then in ep.3 when his son got bitten, he would've have stopped the RV and dealt with it right away. He knew his son was bitten, he knew there wasn't any chance Duck would survive and he knew he was putting everyone in that RV in danger by letting Duck stay. Regardless, he let him stay because those same rules and survival instincts do not apply when his family is concerned. That's why I hate his personality and I can never forgive him for what he did.
    Nobody knew when exactly was Duck gonna turn. It could've happened while everybody was asleep. The least that could have happened was Katjaa getting bitten. She wouldn't let go of her son, no matter whether he turned while in her arms or not.

    Oh yeh...sorry son time to die. He isn't selfish just 'cause he wants to save his family and not face the truth. Also, he is trying to protect others when he stops Larry from turning, yes...his family IS the priority but he wants to keep as many people alive as possible; he couldn't risk a zombie Larry.
  • edited December 2012
    Scaeva wrote: »
    There was no way to restrain Zombie Larry. Salt licks wouldn't have worked anymore than putting bricks on a person's arms or legs would pin them down. Any slight movement is going to send them topling over to the side, and the weight of a couple salt licks wasn't going to keep his arms and legs pinned.

    This. Not to mention they probably didn't have time to pile up salt licks onLarry anyway and the person piling up the salt licks would probably get bit. A real leader puts the safety of his group ahead of the feelings of one woman and a person who doesn't is simply too weak to make the right call.

    And just because Kenny can't immediately give up on his son and kill him does not mean he wasn't making the right call and protecting the group. I would find making the right call on a bitten Clem much harder than making the call on bitten Larry for example. I would probably take more time and there's nothing unnatural or cruel about that. The whole "Kenny doesn't immediately kill his child so he is a hypocrite and a bad person" is weak.
  • edited December 2012
    Getting O/T a bit, but does anyone else think Larry's death is kind of ironic?

    When you first meet him he suggests smashing Duck's head because he might be bitten. Karma is a bitch, Larry. ;)
  • edited December 2012
    YamiRaziel wrote: »
    You have to understand that Kenny wasn't protecting anyone in that meatlocker scene. If that were truly his intentions, then in ep.3 when his son got bitten, he would've have stopped the RV and dealt with it right away. He knew his son was bitten, he knew there wasn't any chance Duck would survive and he knew he was putting everyone in that RV in danger by letting Duck stay. Regardless, he let him stay because those same rules and survival instincts do not apply when his family is concerned. That's why I hate his personality and I can never forgive him for what he did.
    Nobody knew when exactly was Duck gonna turn. It could've happened while everybody was asleep. The least that could have happened was Katjaa getting bitten. She wouldn't let go of her son, no matter whether he turned while in her arms or not.
    I don't blame Kenny for his feelings towards losing his son, I mean, losing a father is one thing but losing your only son is another. No parent should have to go through something so awful.
  • edited December 2012
    dukeleto wrote: »
    I strongly recommend you to watch TV series - if you haven't seen them yet, so you can see how people (especially the group leaders) react to those who are about to lose their family members.

    Yes, this is a Zombie Apocalypse which means that it is for everyone, every single person is experiencing the same nightmare and NO ONE is different than the other when you check hard situations, griefs, family issues, etc...

    For further information, please watch Andrea&Amy scene and look for Rick's reaction.
    For more further information, please watch Tyreese&Ben's mother scene- look for Carl's reaction.
    A true leader respects people's feelings.
    Different from these examples, in the game our group was trapped in that meat locker I know, but I think even if a little boy like Carl could treat reasonable with family issues, a man with a family should have known better.
    If it WAS the purpose- blocking Larry from harming anyone in that meat locker- I'd put some salt licks on Larry's different body parts to limit his possible zombie movements than instantly busting Larry's head. Because I HAVE A BRAIN which I can use whenever I need.
    But if it was the purpose to kill him, well it depends...

    On the other hand LEEME was there and I really pissed of when Kenny involved the situation which I was already taking care of.

    Never mind, really you or I will not give up from our own angles on Kenny. So, lets end this discussion. Because you'll SURELY continue to defend a man(by saying he did everything for his family) who were DOING NOTHING to search for an escape while LEEYOU were looking for an exit from that meat locker.
    Pretty please try to remember his words while you were trying to examine the air went and please remember his answer when you asked him if he had any tools on himself suitable to use on those screws.
    Last time I checked he was not looking like a mainstay of a family who was dying by scratching the walls to save his family.

    God forgive Kenny. I hope he has died in that alley (or in dark room) for the well of the universe.

    You're right about us not changing each others' opinions. 60+ pages of people argueing back and forth have surely proven that, but I think that, while Kenny may not be a stand up guy who'd put literally everyone ahead of himself, he's not evil. I see his actions as him doing the necessary things to ensure the group's survival, which of course includes the survival of his family, but he doesn't give up when they die. He gets everyone off the street in Savannah, even though it means leaving Chuck behind. Instead of blindly fleeing, the man finds a shotgun to give to Lee in the belltower so Lee can hold the walkers off so the group can escape. He tries to make sure everyone knows what to do if Lee faints again in the attic so that the other four of them don't die in case he turns. He helps the first person who needs it on the mission to rescue Clem, despite hating their guts, and he dies for it. Saying that him dying is good for the universe is wrong. He was just a man caught in impossible situations. If you think that people who wronged you should die, then why didn't you slam a brick of salt into Larry's face?
  • edited December 2012
    Wrighty wrote: »
    This. Not to mention they probably didn't have time to pile up salt licks onLarry anyway and the person piling up the salt licks would probably get bit. A real leader puts the safety of his group ahead of the feelings of one woman and a person who doesn't is simply too weak to make the right call.

    And just because Kenny can't immediately give up on his son and kill him does not mean he wasn't making the right call and protecting the group. I would find making the right call on a bitten Clem much harder than making the call on bitten Larry for example. I would probably take more time and there's nothing unnatural or cruel about that. The whole "Kenny doesn't immediately kill his child so he is a hypocrite and a bad person" is weak.

    So because it is his son, that changes the rules? His son is nothing to the rest of the group member (except for Katjaa, ofc). Just accept it - Kenny is a coward and a hypocrite who doesn't really care about anyone else.
  • edited December 2012
    Salt licks wouldn't hold him on the ground? You just sounded like you didn't see how Larry's face reshaped after he ate that salt lick. Your comment was just sided, I think.

    For me, there is only ONE explanation to the situation above all other excuses:

    Kenny doesn't care others' lives and feelings + Kenny panicked + Kenny doesn't have the balls + Kenny looked for a revenge + Kenny wanted to hold all strings in his hands + Kenny was trembling with the idea of a painful death

    =

    Kenny murdered Larry with no hesitation. Dastardly.

    Rock114 wrote: »
    If you think that people who wronged you should die, then why didn't you slam a brick of salt into Larry's face?

    Well, my friend. I didn't...

    Because Larry thought it might not be the best idea to carry a murderer around. And he left LeeME behind with no other "personal" manner. And from his point it looked very reasonable to me.

    Because Larry NEVER ever mentioned that we were friends. (and he kept the ball rolling, at least no lies)

    Because Larry was how he was. It is about his personality, if he doesn't like a guy, then he doesn't. And this is way much more honest to me. Not like slippery Kenny.

    Because there was really NO necessity to do it at that point. (Come on, where did you see a zombie acted like Sonic the Hedgehog or where did you see a zombie has some Cheetara moves in this game? You all sound like it was not possible to wait until the first signs of his turning. They were even not sure that he was dead. Even if he has turned, I'm pretty sure they can handle finishing him off before he could take a single step.)

    Because I deeply believed that Larry is an ok guy.

    You asked me why I didn't slam a brick of salt into Larry's face if I think that people who wronged me should die (P.S: I don't think people who did wrong to me should die), and I have a surprise for you:

    I even gave Larry a portion while rationing food, in spite of he left me to death there in Pharmacy;

    I did it...

    Because I AM a good person.
  • edited December 2012
    dukeleto wrote: »
    Salt licks couldn't hold him on the ground? You just sounded like you didn't see how Larry's face reshaped after he ate that salt lick. Your comment was just sided, I think.

    There is only ONE explanation to the situation.
    Kenny doesn't care others' lives and feelings + Kenny panicked + Kenny doesn't have the balls + Kenny looked for a revenge + Kenny wanted to hold all strings in his hands + Kenny was trembling with the idea of a sudden death

    =

    He murdered Larry with no hesitation. Dastardly.




    Well, my friend. I didn't...

    Because Larry thought it might not be the best idea to carry a murderer around. And he left Lee behind with no other "personal" manner. And from his point it looked very reasonable to me.

    Because Larry NEVER ever mentioned that we were friends. (and he kept the ball rolling, at least no lies)

    Because Larry was how he was. It is about his personality, if he doesn't like a guy, then he doesn't. And this is way much more honest to me. Not like slippery Kenny.

    Because there was really NO necessity to do it at that point. (Come on, where did you see a zombie acted like Sonic the Hedgehog or where did you see a zombie has some Cheetara moves? You all sound like it was not possible to wait until the first signs of his turning. They were even not sure that he was dead.)

    Because I deeply believed that Larry is an ok guy.

    You asked me why I didn't slam a brick of salt into Larry's face if I think that people who wronged me should die (P.S: I don't think people did wrong to me should die), I have a surprise for you:

    I even gave him a portion while rationing food, in spite of he left me to death there;

    Because I AM a good person.

    I agree with everything here, well said.
  • edited December 2012
    dukeleto wrote: »
    Salt licks wouldn't hold him on the ground? You just sounded like you didn't see how Larry's face reshaped after he ate that salt lick. Your comment was just sided, I think.

    Larry's head was crushed because Kenny hurled the salt lick at his head. It wouldn't have had the same effect if Kenny had just gently placed it there.

    Salt licks were not enough to keep Larry pinned to the ground. A salt lick weighs at most 10 or 15 pounds. You are going to need much more than the equivalent of 10 or 15 pound weights to pin down the arms and legs of a 6'4 300 lb man.


    dukeleto wrote: »

    Kenny murdered Larry with no hesitation. Dastardly.

    Larry's heart had stopped. You can't murder a dead man.
  • edited December 2012
    Because Kenny just chucked that salt lick the moment Larry hit the ground, didn't he? Hell, I bet he had it in his back pocket and was just waiting for a chance, right? Did you see the look on his face when he realized Larry was dead? He didn't want any revenge, although I have no doubt that killing Larry would not have affected him the same way as Duck and Kat's deaths did.

    "You remember the poor bastard at the motel, how fast he turned?" I do. I also remember the first walker we ever encountered, the cop. He certainly leapt up like Sonic the Hedgehog. Even knowing all that, he's horrified at what he had to do for his family and the group. He didn't want all the strings in his hands. You make it sound like he was plotting Larry's death from the very beginning. Like he's some sort of assassin. He's not. He made sure that Larry didn't kill anybody after he came back. Kenny's no coward either, he's always had my back. The man even took a bullet to the gut for his son! He tried to save Ben, and he DID save Christa with zero hesitation. The man may have had a bit of a rough patch in the middle, but he was a hero in Episode 1 and he sure as hell died a hero in Episode 5. In my game Christa would be dead if it weren't for him, and he hated her as much as he did Lilly. If he's willing to save the person who got his family killed, or Lilly 2.0, you can't say that he was a truly evil person.
  • edited December 2012
    Really no need to discuss further. Since we are all too different kinds of people, our actions or our intentions or our reactions on specific occasions are way different, too. As some of us just wants to get rid of the tension (plus it may depend on how much they care about "ethics") while some of us just keeps trying for the best to the last possible moment, no matter what and no matter who they are dealing with. So, please forget the "piling salt licks" issue or Sonic the Hedgehog issue for a moment, since the answer to these two depends on player's angles and capabilities.

    The thing I want you to focus most is:

    NO one but NO ONE has the right to act like an executioner when it comes to family issues. Kenny shouldn't KILL Larry, because simply he has NO right to do it. Simple. No .ucking right on someone else's life.
    No matter what it was not, never, ever, no way, hell no- his duty.

    Kenny broke the first and the most important rule (and on my angle he caused a chain reaction on others- like Lilly killing Carley etc.):

    "Ohana means family. And family means no one gets left behind." - Stitch
  • edited December 2012
    Ok, I just want to say, people who hate Kenny don't seem to understand that Kenny isn't a coward or an idiot and they don't seem to understand that he isn't the only one who is flawed (Lily, Larry and Ben) imo, even more so than Kenny. People who prefer Kenny seem to understand that he isn't perfect, Kenny haters can't accept the fact that he is a loyal and brave guy (even if he isn't loyal to Lee in your save.) Kenny makes logical choices (except when its understandably about his family), Lily makes choices based on her own emotions. Kenny's choice is the lesser of 2 evils when comparing him to Lily. He knows that, if Larry came back as a zombie, he would most likely kill them all and , therefore, his family would've been in danger. Also, going by how quickly people turn, I believe people start turning as soon as they die meaning that Larry couldn't have been saved anyway.

    Lily is shown not to think things through because she kills Carley (and accidentally kills Doug) because people don't agree with her; how can you defend that? Its cold hearted and stupid, she ruined the entire group by doing that. Kenny is in no way worse, he did what he did to protect everyone, Lily did it because she was angry and didn't act rationally at all. Even if you don't side with Kenny, he doesn't kill anyone for no reason and he doesn't put the whole group in danger...the only person he can 'betray' is Lee. That is also understandable, Kenny doesn't risk his life to save you 'cause he only saves people who are family or friends and, if you try to save Larry, you are going against him and putting everyone at risk so why should he risk his life to save you when he needs it to save his family?

    People keep saying Kenny was a coward when it came to trying to save Shawn...he wasn't. The apocalypse had only started a few days ago, so Kenny hadn't had a lot of experience dealing with zombies. He was willing to risk his life to save his son but not risk his life to save a complete stranger who was in a very bad situation; not cowardly

    Also, if Larry had become a zombie, you wouldn't have been able to kill him that easily. People keep saying you could keep him down and manage to kill him...how? The only weapon you have is a salt block that slowed Kenny down and required a Larry who wasn't moving. Larry didn't need to get up straight away to deal some damage, he does have arms; both Lee and Lily were in an easy grabbing distance. Lee would've tried to keep Clem alive, Lily would be panicking and Kenny would have been the only rational one when facing a zombie Larry. He had the right idea, though gruesome, when removing Larry as a threat. Remember how much trouble Lee has with zombies when they grab him, needing help or a weapon, and remember that, if you save Duck, it requires both YOU and KENNY to get him free from a zombie who is reaching over a fence and hasn't got a very good grip on Duck. Mark also mentions that he would hate to be alone in a room with a live Larry who has human moral qualities...being in a room with a stronger, zombie Larry, determined to eat you, would've been horrible. And they are stronger as zombies, they can tear through your stomach and get to your guts quickly.

    Anyway, no matter how loyal to Lily you are...she betrays you and endangers the entire group. However, Kenny won't endanger the group even if you aren't loyal to him and if you are loyal to him (DOESN'T actually need to be 100%) he becomes the best friend you could hope for in a zombie apocalypse.
  • edited December 2012
    YamiRaziel wrote: »
    So because it is his son, that changes the rules? His son is nothing to the rest of the group member (except for Katjaa, ofc). Just accept it - Kenny is a coward and a hypocrite who doesn't really care about anyone else.

    Its a different situation because its his son. No father (Kenny) could immediatly kill his son and give up on them, just as no daughter (Lilly) could immediatly give up on their father and kill them, even if its the right thing to do. Expecting anything different is just plain stupid

    And Duk, would you really risk the entire group getting devoured over the idea that you cant get involved in "family issues"? The issue risked everyones lives, including Clem who was like a daughter to Lee, and if its a choice between getting involved or risking everyones lives, hell yeah i would get involved!

    And as much as i love Lilo and Stitch, I think the rules on family change in a ZA :P
  • edited December 2012
    I actually like Kenny though I didn't side with him when he killed Larry and I tried to save Shawn over Duck (Shawn was stuck Duck wasn't, and it was Duck's fault Shawn was stuck anyway).

    HOWEVER one thing that really annoyed me about this game, and one of the only things really is that when Kenny and Larry started arguing over whether Duck was bitten or not I sided with Kenny and during one conversation prompt I said about Larry, "Let's reason with him". Okay, all seems fine, except in later episodes Kenny acts as if I said to throw Duck out and sided with Larry. I'm guessing that's some kind of glitch but I found that really irritating that I couldn't point out that I never said that.
  • edited December 2012
    Rock114 wrote: »
    Because Kenny just chucked that salt lick the moment Larry hit the ground, didn't he? Hell, I bet he had it in his back pocket and was just waiting for a chance, right? Did you see the look on his face when he realized Larry was dead? He didn't want any revenge, although I have no doubt that killing Larry would not have affected him the same way as Duck and Kat's deaths did.

    "You remember the poor bastard at the motel, how fast he turned?" I do. I also remember the first walker we ever encountered, the cop. He certainly leapt up like Sonic the Hedgehog. Even knowing all that, he's horrified at what he had to do for his family and the group. He didn't want all the strings in his hands. You make it sound like he was plotting Larry's death from the very beginning. Like he's some sort of assassin. He's not. He made sure that Larry didn't kill anybody after he came back. Kenny's no coward either, he's always had my back. The man even took a bullet to the gut for his son! He tried to save Ben, and he DID save Christa with zero hesitation. The man may have had a bit of a rough patch in the middle, but he was a hero in Episode 1 and he sure as hell died a hero in Episode 5. In my game Christa would be dead if it weren't for him, and he hated her as much as he did Lilly. If he's willing to save the person who got his family killed, or Lilly 2.0, you can't say that he was a truly evil person.

    It's funny how fast he forgot all that in ep.3. The moment his family got involved it all changed. Actually, his family was involved in ep.2 that's why he acted the way I he did.
    If I can swallow the fact that Larry almost killed me back in ep.1, the he should've acted even better than me.
    You all speak ill of Larry but he does try to save you in ep.2. Even though he hates your guts. He doesn't pretend to like you, he isn't your friend, but he does it. That makes him a better man than Kenny's treacheries throughout the entire game.
    Larry is a man who also looks after his daughter but once he sees you're not a bad man (ep 2) he tries to save you.
  • edited December 2012
    YamiRaziel wrote: »
    It's funny how fast he forgot all that in ep.3. The moment his family got involved it all changed. Actually, his family was involved in ep.2 that's why he acted the way I he did.
    If I can swallow the fact that Larry almost killed me back in ep.1, the he should've acted even better than me.
    You all speak ill of Larry but he does try to save you in ep.2. Even though he hates your guts. He doesn't pretend to like you, he isn't your friend, but he does it. That makes him a better man than Kenny's treacheries throughout the entire game.
    Larry is a man who also looks after his daughter but once he sees you're not a bad man (ep 2) he tries to save you.

    Kenny NEVER pretended to be my friend, but he was closest thing to a friend I had in the game, and he never tried to kill me because of it and was never a total dickhead. Larry, on the other hand, was always a douche, no matter what. You can feed him and his daughter, but he'll still hate you.
  • edited December 2012
    Yank you keep talking about how Larry tried to save you in ep 2, but it wasn't really a rescue. The walker was inside the camp and was a threat to everyone, including Lilly. The guy tried to kill you in ep 1 so I don't think Larry thought "Oh no, Lee is in danger!" but "Walker in the camp near my daughter. Must kill it!"
  • edited December 2012
    dukeleto wrote: »
    People are still deaf about the FACT that, it is not the issue here: killing Larry.
    The issue here is killing Larry in cold blood in front of his daughter without leaving any little God damn minute to say goodbye. Lilly would be ok if she could spread her last moments with her most beloved (and only left) family member. Maybe some last words...
    I even don't mention the possibility of saving Larry.
    Such rudeness and selfishness. This is nothing about "hard things must be done sometimes" kinda quote.
    This is all primitive and most unrespectful thing to do.
    If I were Lilly, I'd kill Kenny in that meat locker by my bare hands.

    And please don't try to tell us fairytales, Kenny did not do it for the well of the group but he mostly did it to take revenge from Larry for the argument of Duck's bitten issue. He always wanted to get rid of Lilly-Larry coalition, as he is desperately desiring of that leader role of the group (which I don't know why and with which faculty?), he got the chance and used it precisely.

    And I'm so sad by writing these but, in the end Kenny got what he deserved in his pathetic life, he died knowing that he lost his own family in front of his very own eyes by his very own mistakes.
    I'm so sorry for Katjaa and Duck, no doubt.

    if kenny didn't kill larry

    if_lee_stopped_kenny_by_thestalkinghead-d5ioxfq.jpg

    the last part is while lilly is taking her time to say goodbye/in denial
  • edited December 2012
    The more I think about it... Kenny was quite the vindictive little bitch, wasn't he? I mean I really like his character but... yeah. First he cowards out and doesn't help you with Shawn, then if he rushes to kill Larry, next if you didn't rush to kill Larry Kenny leaves you to fend for yourself twice in the city even though you just saved his fucking family from cannibals, and then he doesn't help you and Ben in the clocktower. Yeesh.
  • edited December 2012
    @DrDeepthroat- Exactly.

    @thestalkinghead-
    This is only an expectation. :D
    Think about how much time passed after his death when they brang that boy (whom Lee chopped his leg off) to their camp? Or think about how much time passed after the police officer has died? Can you name an exact period of time?
    Only then, think about how unnecessarily fast YOU killed Larry. :)

    Nice picture but I think this is the way you find to disburden yourself :D
  • edited December 2012
    dukeleto wrote: »
    @DrDeepthroat- Exactly.

    @thestalkinghead-
    This is only an expectation. :D
    Think about how much time passed after his death when they brang that boy (whom Lee chopped his leg off) to their camp? Or think about how much time passed after the police officer has died? Can you name an exact period of time?
    Only then, think about how unnecessarily fast YOU killed Larry. :)

    Nice picture but I think this is the way you find to disburden yourself :D

    the guy that got his leg chopped off came back maybe a minute after he dies, katjaa and lee hadn't even finished their conversation about how he just died, when he came back and grabbed katjaa
  • edited December 2012
    the guy that got his leg chopped off came back maybe a minute after he dies, katjaa and lee hadn't even finished their conversation about how he just died, when he came back and grabbed katjaa

    So, while you were not side of him you don't exactly know when he died? :)
  • edited December 2012
    Plus, a long time ago Kiel555 mentioned that people who die off natural causes don't always come back as fast as those who die of bite for example.

    As for Larry, Wrighty, you are not right. That walker posed no danger to Lilly or Larry at all. They were armed and were far away from it. So yeah, he did try to save you, despite the fact that he doesn't like you.
    The only people who were actually in danger were Lee and Katjaa.
    Why didn't Kenny help? Because he was busy being dramatic and offended for no reason.
  • edited December 2012
    dukeleto wrote: »
    So, while you were not side of him you don't exactly know when he died? :)

    you can talk to katjaa and know the guy is alive then give away the last of the food have a conversation with kenny, then katjaa will tell you he is dead, so not that long at all, no exact time, but shorter than the average grieving period in which lilly could rationally decide to stop larry from turning
  • edited December 2012
    Kaserkin wrote: »
    Kenny NEVER pretended to be my friend, but he was closest thing to a friend I had in the game, and he never tried to kill me because of it and was never a total dickhead. Larry, on the other hand, was always a douche, no matter what. You can feed him and his daughter, but he'll still hate you.

    There is a conversation that you can have with Lilly near the gazebo that sheds some light on why Larry is a jerk and hear how their family is dealing with this ZA.

    Larry's personality may be abrasive but what do you really know about him? What does he know about you other than what the media has told him? It's not like Lee was mistaken for a convicted murderer and treated unfairly. He is a convicted murderer. Getting punched in the face by a protective father could happen to a felon. Larry continuing to be suspicious of a felon despite Lee's best efforts to show he's a good guy also seems understandable.

    Kenny, on the other hand, pretends to be Lee's friend so long as Lee is an obedient lap dog. Step out of line and Lee risks Kenny's "friendship", Lee's place in the RV, on the boat, and Lee will have to play "the family card" to compel Kenny to help rescue a 9 year old girl from a maniac. Some friend.
  • edited December 2012
    @Kiel555- Pretty much same here.
    But, your effort means a little (like all of us), Kennylovers will continue defending him blindly.
    I wrote 5000 pages, and still some guy popped and told me that "You should understand why Kenny killed Larry". :S

    Are we not writing correctly or people are really fond of understanding however they want? I'm not complaining because Larry has been killed (or died or whatever...), but I'm complaining because of the method of killing him.

    Never mind Kiel, they won't get. And they will probably continue to call "friend" to someone who wants them eighter to steal or to kill to earn that title.
  • edited December 2012
    dukeleto wrote: »
    @Kiel555- Pretty much same here.
    But, your effort means a little (like all of us), Kennylovers will continue defending him blindly.
    I wrote 5000 pages, and still some guy popped and told me that "You should understand why Kenny killed Larry". :S

    Are we not writing correctly or people are really fond of understanding however they want? I'm not complaining because Larry has been killed (or died or whatever...), but I'm complaining because of the method of killing him.

    Never mind Kiel, they won't get. And they will probably continue to call "friend" to someone who wants them eighter to steal or to kill to earn that title.

    you should understand why kenny killed larry because you said you got Clementine to kill your lee and you should understand why he used the method he did because lilly wouldn't let him take out larry in any other way (a big argument wont stop a zombie) and you should also understand that people can like different people than you (you being Lilly's #2 fan)
  • edited December 2012
    dukeleto wrote: »
    @Kiel555- Pretty much same here.
    But, your effort means a little (like all of us), Kennylovers will continue defending him blindly.
    I wrote 5000 pages, and still some guy popped and told me that "You should understand why Kenny killed Larry". :S

    Are we not writing correctly or people are really fond of understanding however they want? I'm not complaining because Larry has been killed (or died or whatever...), but I'm complaining because of the method of killing him.

    Never mind Kiel, they won't get. And they will probably continue to call "friend" to someone who wants them eighter to steal or to kill to earn that title.

    It's obvious that some are entrenched in their opinion of what actually happened in that meat locker on both sides :D.

    Still, this is arguably the most important and story defining scene in season 1. I'm all too happy to continue to denounce and condemn Kenny even if it all falls on deaf ears.:D Did I mention this is my favorite thread?

    Besides, anyone who helped Kenny murder Lilly's father right in front of her was misled by Kenny. We can't give up on them just because they've been hypnotized by Kenny's sweet mustache.:D
  • edited December 2012
    Kiel555 wrote: »
    It's obvious that some are entrenched in their opinion of what actually happened in that meat locker on both sides :D.

    Still, this is arguably the most important and story defining scene in season 1. I'm all too happy to continue to denounce and condemn Kenny even if it all falls on deaf ears.:D Did I mention this is my favorite thread?

    Besides, anyone who helped Kenny murder Lilly's father right in front of her was misled by Kenny. We can't give up on them just because they've been hypnotized by Kenny's sweet mustache.:D

    misled in what way? he stated facts, like if you die you turn unless the brain is destroyed, larry was dead, he will turn unless his brain is destroyed therefore larry's brain needed to be destroyed
  • edited December 2012
    Kiel555 wrote: »
    It's obvious that some are entrenched in their opinion of what actually happened in that meat locker on both sides :D.

    Still, this is arguably the most important and story defining scene in season 1. I'm all too happy to continue to denounce and condemn Kenny even if it all falls on deaf ears.:D Did I mention this is my favorite thread?

    Besides, anyone who helped Kenny murder Lilly's father right in front of her was misled by Kenny. We can't give up on them just because they've been hypnotized by Kenny's sweet mustache.:D

    I LAUGHED SO BAD!!! :D

    And yes, this is also my favourite topic!
    This is arguably the most important and story defining scene in season 1, because it is the key scene to start everything.

    Kenny can call someone "friend" if they helped him to bust some guy's face.
    Kenny can call someone "friend" if they helped him to steal from a lone car.
    Kenny can call someone "friend" if they let an innocent young boy to fall down from the belltower.
    Kenny's reservations for becoming friends are terrific.

    @thestalkinghead- I didn't mean YOU by saying -some guy popped and told me that "You should understand why Kenny killed Larry". I was talking about some other guy.
    I can handle your arguments, since I'm easily WINNING while discussing you. :D
  • edited December 2012
    dukeleto wrote: »
    I LAUGHED SO BAD!!! :D

    And yes, this is also my favourite topic!
    This is arguably the most important and story defining scene in season 1, because it is the key scene to start everything.

    Kenny can call someone "friend" if they helped him to bust some guy's face.
    Kenny can call someone "friend" if they helped him to steal from a lone car.
    Kenny can call someone "friend" if they let an innocent young boy to fall down from the belltower.
    Kenny's reservations for becoming friends are terrific.

    @thestalkinghead- I didn't mean YOU by saying -some guy popped and told me that "You should understand why Kenny killed Larry". I was talking about some other guy.
    I can handle your arguments, since I'm easily WINNING while discussing you. :D

    i totally defeated you in the other thread :cool:
This discussion has been closed.