Ugh.... I'm not trying to call people out but.....

I simply can not believe the ignorance there is at the Poker Night 2 Steam Community Hub.

First off, it's clear that most people there don't appreciate let alone understand the strategy of Poker, and are just there for "easy-to-win" TF2 hats and other unlockables. Although this is nothing new from the first Poker Night, we now suddenly have people accusing this game of being rigged, unbalanced, and a rip-off just because it's too hard for them to win all of the items.

I tried my best to cooperate with them, I really did. But no matter how much advice and suggestion topics I'm willing to give them, they just continue on with their complaints and remorse for buying the game.

No offense, but have these people ever thought about, you know, rethinking their poker strategy? The AI was clearly built to be more strategic as you win more and more bounties, but people there take it the wrong way. So much to the point that they (I'm not making this up) actually spread rumors that a certain "source" states the developers really did program the game to make AI cheat, and always give them a good hand.

Instead of helping each other out and giving tips, they usually just whine and complain about the game's difficulty, and they're all begging for a patch that gives easy mode. It's also common to hear them calling the game a rip-off just because they say it was deliberately programmed to be "unwinnable". There are even a few boycott topics too because of that.

Despite every nonsensical thing the Community Hub says, the truth is, the prizes for Poker Night 2 are much more valuable than last time. They're hats and misc. items, not weapon reskins like in Poker Night 1. Plus you've also got Borderlands 2 items thrown in. So with that said, it would be common sense to make the difficulty harder to make those valuable items well-earned instead of quickly being leeched out by resetting the Tournament every 5 minutes after going all-in like in the original game.

I'm going to ignore the Community Hub for a while now until everything settles down, but I think they literally just made me sick to my stomach after being there for the past day or so...

Comments

  • HoboStewHoboStew Telltale Staff
    edited April 2013
    I don't really mind the complaints, but what I don't understand is what possible motivation people think I would have to program the AI to cheat against you. Its not like I WIN anything when they lose. I am not getting updates on every bad beat someone gets, giggling to myself. Its just poker!
  • edited April 2013
    I agree most of that was just stupid raging but I will agree that one of the last bounty challenges (Win with a high card) is too hard and requires extreme luck other than that its mostly stupid complaints
  • edited April 2013
    HoboStew wrote: »
    I don't really mind the complaints, but what I don't understand is what possible motivation people think I would have to program the AI to cheat against you. Its not like I WIN anything when they lose. I am not getting updates on every bad beat someone gets, giggling to myself. Its just poker!

    This exactly. Not to mention you guys gave the drinking mechanic which makes characters a bit easier to figure out(certainly helps me when I'm a bit on a losing streak).
  • edited April 2013
    Look I have won like a dozen tournaments and I'm really bad at playing cards
    If you're not winning you're not paying attention to your cards and the tells or the others, or simply have not played enough of the game
  • edited April 2013
    First off, it's clear that most people there don't appreciate let alone understand the strategy of Poker, and are just there for "easy-to-win" TF2 hats and other unlockables.

    It's been this way ever since Sam & Max season 3 came out, when they were all complaining about having to pay for a "$30 hat."
  • edited April 2013
    Well I checked the Guides section to see if anyone is contributing to strategy yet, and this is what I found instead...

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=141888199
  • edited April 2013
    Stay away from Steam Community Hubs.
  • edited April 2013
    Great guide.
  • edited April 2013
    You can't expect the Steam community to be like the Telltale forums. We bought the game because we appreciate what Telltale does, and we wanted to hear dialogue between our favorite characters. Hats are good, have a bonus. The Steam folks don't get it. "Why isn't it multiplayer?" "Why can't I play as Ash?" "What the hell is Omaha?" "Why can't I beat the game in two hours?"

    Best not to bother those good people and let them whine it out until the next video game comes out.
  • edited April 2013
    It was great two weeks ago. I preordered the game but my items aren't in my inventory yet. Why?
  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited April 2013
    der_ketzer wrote: »
    It was great two weeks ago. I preordered the game but my items aren't in my inventory yet. Why?

    You have to win the items from within the game, if that's what you're asking.
  • edited April 2013
    Jake wrote: »
    You have to win the items from within the game, if that's what you're asking.

    No no, Jake. He was making fun of the Steam community two weeks ago. If you went on the Steam hub at all around that time, you would have seen a billion of those.
  • ProfanityProfanity Banned
    edited April 2013
    Ryu-Chan wrote: »
    No no, Jake. He was making fun of the Steam community two weeks ago. If you went on the Steam hub at all around that time, you would have seen a billion of those.

    I also like the ones where they're asking why the items are not genuine. Seen a couple like that today.
  • edited April 2013
    ThIs Is ThE wORsT GaMe EvEr, it OUgHt To HaVe BeEN A sANdBox,
  • edited April 2013
    Gotta love those extremely ignorant customers. They don't do any proper research about product they want and then they complain or even try to sue a company in extreme cases.
  • edited April 2013
    I've tried to come up with a good response to this thread, but so far my brain decided to take a shit on the part of my brain that processes language due to the big amounts of stupid that thread had.
  • edited April 2013
    But... But can I transfer it to my PC to my PS3? No? But can I if I really really want to? Still no?
  • edited April 2013
    GaryCXJk wrote: »
    I've tried to come up with a good response to this thread, but so far my brain decided to take a shit on the part of my brain that processes language due to the big amounts of stupid that thread had.

    I'd go with "it was said before the game was announced that you had to have the specific console version for BL2 items. You don't deserve crap, try researching next time".

    Go ahead and just copy/paste that right in, I can't be bothered to log onto steam to post it :p
  • edited April 2013
    I've done relatively okay so far only really remembering to look out for certain hand combinations (pair, two pair, three pair, four of a kind, straight, and maybe Jack/Queen/King/Ace High if I'm desperate) and I'm up $580k on my game right now. I'm not an expert, but I wouldn't mind assisting in a guide if people needed one.

    Between GameFAQs and Steam Community Guides, I think sometimes fan guides need to be proofread a little more. Some of them aren't explained very well, or there's information missing.
  • edited April 2013
    Well I checked the Guides section to see if anyone is contributing to strategy yet, and this is what I found instead...

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=141888199

    I voted that one down and reported that guide. Hopefully they will see the guide and take the appropriate action.

    Meanwhile, this guide seems pretty good.
    GaryCXJk wrote: »
    I've tried to come up with a good response to this thread, but so far my brain decided to take a shit on the part of my brain that processes language due to the big amounts of stupid that thread had.

    It could be the same one and the person eventually deleted the post (or was deleted for them) but I saw a similar thread at least saying that "Telltale probably didn't realize that there would be people in situations like that."

    Of course they knew there would be people like that. Part of the reason why they went multiplatform. And why they made the choice to go stictly achievement rewarded and not code rewarded.
  • edited May 2013
    HoboStew wrote: »
    I am not getting updates on every bad beat someone gets, giggling to myself. Its just poker!

    Well... there goes my whole conspiracy theory angle. ;)
  • ProfanityProfanity Banned
    edited May 2013
    Well... there goes my whole conspiracy theory angle. ;)

    Gives up on conspiracy theory when one of the suspected conspirators denies it.

    Do you even rebel?!
  • edited May 2013
    Profanity wrote: »
    Do you even rebel?!

    Only when a certain Billy Idol song is playing on the radio.
  • edited May 2013
    HoboStew wrote: »
    I don't really mind the complaints, but what I don't understand is what possible motivation people think I would have to program the AI to cheat against you. Its not like I WIN anything when they lose. I am not getting updates on every bad beat someone gets, giggling to myself. Its just poker!

    Because many game developers make A.I. cheat to artificially add difficulty to games. This commonly occurs in all genres. Making good A.I. is hard. Making them cheat is much easier.

    I've played poker for a long time, and the amount these guys win on the river is just unbelievable. You simply don't win on the river that much. That has nothing to do with poker strategy and everything to do with "luck". Or at least it's luck IRL. In this game if A.I. needs something on the river, you bet they are getting it. You better go in with 100% chance to win on the turn or expect to lose.

    Not only is it that they have a magic river for the A.I. but it's the hands they win on. Straight flush's/4 of a kind, etc. It's just BS to be seeing those hands every single deal.
  • edited May 2013
    hey! I'm in that steam community discussion being misinterpreted!
  • edited May 2013
    Gauge wrote: »
    Because many game developers make A.I. cheat to artificially add difficulty to games. This commonly occurs in all genres. Making good A.I. is hard. Making them cheat is much easier.

    I've played poker for a long time, and the amount these guys win on the river is just unbelievable. You simply don't win on the river that much. That has nothing to do with poker strategy and everything to do with "luck". Or at least it's luck IRL. In this game if A.I. needs something on the river, you bet they are getting it. You better go in with 100% chance to win on the turn or expect to lose.

    Not only is it that they have a magic river for the A.I. but it's the hands they win on. Straight flush's/4 of a kind, etc. It's just BS to be seeing those hands every single deal.

    like you said, it's tough to make really good AI. the best thing you can make AI based on is the probabilities of wins mixed with the behavior of the characters. this can create a rain man scenario where all the players at the table are masters at counting cards except you, then they play the game based on their flawless card counting skills and behavior of bluffing, betting, calling, drinking, etc.
  • edited May 2013
    Uh, card counting? You can't count cards in poker. The deck is shuffled every hand.
  • edited May 2013
    like you said, it's tough to make really good AI. the best thing you can make AI based on is the probabilities of wins mixed with the behavior of the characters. this can create a rain man scenario where all the players at the table are masters at counting cards except you, then they play the game based on their flawless card counting skills and behavior of bluffing, betting, calling, drinking, etc.

    It's not that they bluff successfully, it's just that they ALWAYS have the cards. If they had the cards on the flop every hand, ok maybe a lil fishy, but w.e you can play your way out of that. They have the cards on the river, every fricken hand. Tell me how the A.I. just KNOWS the river will have what they need.

    Also counting cards is very pointless in hold 'em. If this game is using the same deck for each deal then lol... someone hasn't played poker ever. Or if they A.I. knows what all the other A.I.'s cards are, then lol again.

    The A.I. should only make decisions based on what it has, and what is on the table. It shouldn't be able to magically pull cards out of its arse. It should have the dealer on its payroll for the magic river cards. And if you can't make a difficult enough game with A.I that plays like a human does, then don't make a poker game.

    As someone who regularly wins hold 'em IRL, I'll let you know when I win my first tournament lol in this game.

    Wanna know the most telling. Play another hold 'em game side by side and see how many times you see these amazing hands, and BS wins on the river. Maybe the devs wanted every hand to feel like WSIP or somthing. Maybe they went the madden route where every play has to be amazing and in doing so ruined the game(I don't play madden I just follow video game news). I don't know what happened. All I'm telling you, as someone who has designed and built random cards games (albeit a long time ago and not poker) this is not random.
  • edited May 2013
    furrykef wrote: »
    Uh, card counting? You can't count cards in poker. The deck is shuffled every hand.

    just do me and yourself a favor and google "card counting poker"

    its not limited to blackjack.

    you take a different approach to playing when you are thinking in terms of probability instead of luck. "sweet, i have 26% of a flush", instead of "i hope i get another diamond on the river"
  • edited May 2013
    Gauge wrote: »
    Also counting cards is very pointless in hold 'em.

    are you suggesting that its not worthwhile to consider probabilities when betting? when you have a pair on the turn, are you going to bet as if you might get a four of a kind?

    just because its a very low level of counting cards doesn't mean that's not what it is.

    all I'm pointing out is that the average human player is looking at the cards on the table and making a best-guess at what they could end up with and if that is good enough to win. the computer knows their chance of winning to a very precise percentage when making their decision. (through card counting). what people are calling "cheating" is really just the AI knowing exactly what their odds of winning are and betting/raising etc based on their programmed behavior for those odds.

    so when people feel like one of the players never seems to lose when they stay in the game, that's because math doesn't lie to them and they were programmed to be good at poker.
  • edited May 2013
    just do me and yourself a favor and google "card counting poker"
    I was a semi-pro poker player for over a year. I read every poker book I could get my hands on, by people who really knew their stuff -- names like Phil Hellmuth, David Sklansky, Bob Ciaffone, and Doyle Brunson. Not once did any of them ever mention "card counting".

    I think maybe you're talking about being aware of how many outs will improve your hand, which is indeed good strategy (it's Poker 101, really) -- but it's not normally called "card counting", and applying the term "card counting" to poker will only make you sound clueless.
  • edited May 2013
    furrykef wrote: »
    I was a semi-pro poker player for over a year. I read every poker book I could get my hands on, by people who really knew their stuff -- names like Phil Hellmuth, David Sklansky, Bob Ciaffone, and Doyle Brunson. Not once did any of them ever mention "card counting".

    I think maybe you're talking about being aware of how many outs will improve your hand, which is indeed good strategy (it's Poker 101, really) -- but it's not normally called "card counting", and applying the term "card counting" to poker will only make you sound clueless.

    well if I say card counting for any card game it should mean the same thing to you: figuring out your probability of success based on known cards no longer in the deck.

    in blackjack, you get to know a lot more of the cards no longer in the deck so this trick has a much larger impact and is much harder to perform.

    try thinking in terms of computer science instead of professional real-life poker tournaments.

    i am clueless to poker tournaments, but quite familiar to programming. If I was designing poker AI, the first thing I would do is implement card counting so that I can define behavior for the character based on their odds of winning.
  • edited May 2013
    Card counting works in some games, but it's fairly useless in holdem. At any time you only know what 2,5,6, and 7 of the card on the table are. So your probabilities are incredibly sketchy at best(from the player perspective).
  • edited May 2013
    Gauge wrote: »
    Card counting works in some games, but it's fairly useless in holdem. At any time you only know what 2,5,6, and 7 of the card on the table are. So your probabilities are incredibly sketchy at best(from the player perspective).
    Not really. As I said before, knowing your number of outs is Poker 101. For example, if you have four to a flush on the flop, and you can be pretty sure you'll win if you hit your flush (e.g. you have an ace of the suit, so you know a better flush won't beat you, and there is no pair on the board), then you have 9 outs -- 9 cards that can improve your hand. Now you apply the "rule of two": 9*2 = 18, so you have a roughly 18% chance of hitting your hand, or about a 1 in 5 chance. That means you need 4:1 odds to call -- so if the pot is $5000 and you have to call $1000, it's an easy call.

    Again, though, I think calling this "card counting" is silly, especially since it has much less to do with what cards you've already seen and much more with how many cards can improve your hand. The only thing you're counting is your outs; in blackjack, you're not counting your outs, you're counting the cards you've seen. The two have little in common.
  • edited May 2013
    I agree most of that was just stupid raging but I will agree that one of the last bounty challenges (Win with a high card) is too hard and requires extreme luck other than that its mostly stupid complaints

    Has anyone actually MANAGED that? I keep on getting so close but then the computer deals a card that gives me a pair or a flush or a straight or something similar. Every time that happens I alt+F4 to retry the challenge. So far out of about 20 attempts at it I have had no success. I hope that an option is added so that we can get a new set of challenges WITHOUT having to complete all of the current ones in exchange for progress on the current ones being lost. I wouldn't even mind paying for this feature as a micro-transaction if it means that I do not have to complete THAT challenge!
  • edited May 2013
    I don't think it's too hard to get an Ace high win at all. If you have an instance where everyone is just checking their hands along, you can often check all the way to the end (I find this easiest with Sam in a heads up) and once cards are overturned, it might hold up.

    Not super-common, but not exactly difficult, because if they're checking to the end, their hand may well be equally as bad (high card) as yours, it's a matter of crossing your fingers and hoping your high card is the highest card.
  • edited May 2013
    I came across someone who was complaining that you couldn't pick your hand when playing. I squinted at the screen in response to that one.
  • edited May 2013
    medacris wrote: »
    I came across someone who was complaining that you couldn't pick your hand when playing. I squinted at the screen in response to that one.

    No. They had to be joking. My already-tremulous belief in the collective human intelligence cannot accept anything else.
  • edited May 2013
    I'm thinking maybe they wanted some kind of draw poker instead of hold'em or Omaha.
  • edited May 2013
    They are probably (and hopefully) refering to Omaha. But even if you self picked, you only get to use 2 from your hole cards and 3 from the Dealt cards, so it really would not benefit them at all.

    Though being able to self pick MIGHT just drive the point home of the rules and limitations of the game
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