How much do you think sexism influenced the decision to give money in the start?

I remember hearing people claim sexism in regards to rescuing Carley in Episode 1 of Walking Dead, but to me the biggest factor there wasn't gender but the fact that Carley had a gun and knew how to use it, which to me seemed a bit more important to everyday survival after a zombie apocalypse than having an IT guy. As well, she was a much more developed character than Doug. Think even Telltale acknowledged they kinda dropped the ball on that one.

Here there is no such pressing demand. She just needs money to avoid getting in trouble with her pimp. We barely know her, she has nothing useful to give us, and there is nothing pressing about the decision for Bigby himself. As far as he knows, his life will continue on the same either way, only with him being momentarily broke if he hands out all his cash.

And yet, what is it, 90% still who chose to give Faith money? Would the percentage be anywhere near as high if he had been a fat old man rather than a smoking hot young woman?

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Comments

  • I don't think sexism had anything to do with it. Giving her money is a show of compassion. The difference between the choice in the Walking Dead and this one is that the first was a choice between two different people, this was just a choice between altruism and practicality. Personally I didn't give her the money because a Sheriff giving a prostitute money is not a good look. I'm glad my choice paid off later where I was able to pay for my drink in the bar.

  • You don't think there would be any shift in the percentages giving her money if she looked like....say, Tweedledee or Tweedledum?

    nofacej posted: »

    I don't think sexism had anything to do with it. Giving her money is a show of compassion. The difference between the choice in the

  • edited October 2013

    It depends how it was presented. If the male character that was in trouble was sympathetic then I think the percentage would be equally high. If the character was unsympathetic then the percentage would go down. It may be true that people are more likely to feel sympathetic to a woman than a man, but I don't think it's sexist to make the choice to give her money, and I don't think sexism came into play when giving us the option.

    A better choice for this discussion would be the choice to either tell Beast the truth or to lie to him.

    You don't think there would be any shift in the percentages giving her money if she looked like....say, Tweedledee or Tweedledum?

  • If the character were male and sympathetic, I think the percentages would be high. I highly doubt they would be 90% in favor, which is just about the most lop-sided result I've seen in one of these things.

    Note that I'm not claiming that giving the money is automatically about sexism, or that someone who chose that option was necessarily thinking in that vein at all. I gave her the money out of compassion, as you said, and were the story written equally as sympathetically for any other character I would have given the money just as quickly.

    Yet she's an attractive young woman who is favorably disposed to Bigby, and has some relatively flirtatious dialogue. I think it's absurd to pretend that wouldn't be a pretty big factor for a lot of men when the choice arrives.

    nofacej posted: »

    It depends how it was presented. If the male character that was in trouble was sympathetic then I think the percentage would be equa

  • I don't get how being generous could end up being deemed sexist at all...

  • I gave her the money out of compassion not because she's female, I didn't want her to get pimp slapped. If it were Dee standing on the comer begging for a sandwich from Malone's, I damn sure wouldn't help his ass out. I also gave Colin a drink and he's a damn pig! Most players felt bad for faith I honestly don't think sexism caused 90% of players to give her money.

  • I wouldnt care much. It was just the right thing to do to me. Wouldnt matter if she was hot or not. Sure there are some people and then again there are other people who would hate here for her being prostitute. So I wouldnt worry too much here or there in this.

  • People are reading too much into the word 'sexism'. I'm not saying 'if you gave money you're a chauvinist pig'. I'm saying 'I suspect gender played a role in the lop-sided outcome of the decision'

  • Okay... Sorry, words like sexism or racism seem to mean everything and its opposite now, and their definitions vary depending on who uses them, so don't blame people for getting confused.

    Now that I understand what you meant :
    I don't know if Faith's sex played a part in my decision to give her the money. It's not like I had both a woman and a man, equally in need, in front of me, and chosed the girl over the man just for the sake of her having boobs.
    The way I see it, I had the opportunity to help a character in distress... I tend to be generous and helpful towards vulnerable characters in most role/adventure games, I always expect good karma to reward me later.
    (Except in this one game where my character needed to survive a zombie apocalypse :D but even there I tried to be the nicest I could afford myself to be)

    People are reading too much into the word 'sexism'. I'm not saying 'if you gave money you're a chauvinist pig'. I'm saying 'I suspect gender played a role in the lop-sided outcome of the decision'

  • edited October 2013

    I did it because I was being a generous person, not because she was female, I don't really know why people are jumping at every choice, whether it be Walking Dead or TWAU, that involves a woman is somehow sexist.

  • I did it to get my Bigsy some ''strange' ;)

  • I really should have used a word other than 'sexism'. I feel like a poked a sore point for people and now they feel they're being accused of being bad people for giving the girl money.

    'Gender-based but arguably positive discrimination'? Or maybe I should have just asked if sex appeal had anything to do with it.

  • i would have given toad money if i had the money and that was an option as well, bigby lives a simple life, all he needs is enough for smokes, whiskey and take out (and maybe rent) so he could spare the money, however sociologically speaking, gender would have played a role in a statistical sense when it comes to helping a man or a woman

  • Some people found her attractive , some felt bad for her , and some just wanted to be a gentleman ...
    I for one thought that Bigby is trying to change himself in better , to leave his past and become somebody kind and protective. That's pretty much what motivated me.

  • I didn't give her money because I felt it would have done nothing to solve the larger problem and that I'd have a chance to help her in a greater capacity later.

    I was a bit off on that one.

  • I gave her money because she'd just gotten beaten up and I felt bad for her. She got nothing from Woody but bruises. I mean, does the same question apply to female players?

  • edited October 2013

    I was wondering the same thing. I'm a female player and I chose to give her the money because I genuinely felt bad for this character. Her gender didn't have anything to with it for me. She'd just had the snot beaten out of her and she was obviously hard up. She also appeared very despondent and sad. Tragic, really. If a male character had been portrayed in the same light, I would have made the exact same choice. I mean, I felt pretty bad for Toad at several points, despite all of his smart mouthing. And not only was he a male character, he was a goofy looking anthropomorphic amphibian.

    Perhaps there was a group of players that felt more compassionate toward her because she was an attractive female. But I think there were probably several other players who felt that compassion simply because they had just witnessed this character go through a harrowing and demoralizing ordeal.

    KCohere posted: »

    I gave her money because she'd just gotten beaten up and I felt bad for her. She got nothing from Woody but bruises. I mean, does the same question apply to female players?

  • I chose not to give her money, maybe it was her personality or because she wasn't answering my questions...
    After going to her apartment though I did feel a little bad for her after what happened, though I just didn't see how giving her money would benefit me haha. In the end I was glad I didn't since she dies anyway and you can't pay for your drink in the bar if you gave her the money.

  • what an enlightening discussion. it is very interesting that some people are instead answering the question: "does giving faith fictional money make you a bad person in Real Life?" rather than "is it sexist?".

    some of the clarifications and justifications reveal that, if not sexist it's definitely obtuse.

    as the player you are controlling a detective character, and yet what do we know for sure about what faith is up to before Bigsby knocks down the door? are we CERTAIN that what Woodsman "owes" faith is american dollars, and not some magic item, contract or information? (consider that the tweedles are supposedly after the woodsman too. consider that faith may have been sent to retrieve the same item/contract/information.)

    are we SURE she has no money? are we SURE that she is a prostitute and that she is 'working' when we meet her?

    the answer to all of these assumption and many more, my friends, is of course not.

    and, since you are supposed to be detectives, but are not thinking or acting like detectives. since you are only assuming all of the above.

    well then, that is the very definition of sexism, innit ? no hard feelings and good luck.

  • edited October 2013

    When Bigby asks her "How much was it he owed ya?" she responds "A hundred." So we know that it's at least a quantity of something. The fact that she doesn't clarify what she meant when Bigby gives her the money suggests that that was what she was talking about. Granted she could be lying or trying to intentionally mislead Bigby just to get money from him but then why would she initially reject it? I think it's a pretty fair conclusion to draw from the facts presented that she was claiming that the Woodsman owed her $100.

    Her Book of Fables entry also clearly states that she was "turning tricks to make the rent." Unless "turning tricks" has another meaning (I doubt she's a magician by trade) or the Book of Fables was lying to us (which would be bullshit), it's not much of an assumption to say that she was a prostitute.

    So what we have here is a woman who is a prostitute claiming that a man owes her $100. You could argue that it's "sexist" to take her word for it but I think that has more to do with the fact that she was nice while the guy she's accusing just tried to kill you. Of course, that doesn't mean that engaging in prostitution was her only reason or even her main reason for being at Woody's place. Based on the fact that she couldn't tell us what she was doing there, it's very possible that she was sent there for other reasons. But it's not unreasonable and certain not sexist to conclude that prostitution had something to do with a man owing a prostitute $100.

    Lupine posted: »

    what an enlightening discussion. it is very interesting that some people are instead answering the question: "does giving faith fict

  • she was definitely a prostitute, we can't be sure how much she was owed or that she was even owed anything, but regardless she was beat up and it is "good cop" etiquette to help out a hard done by working girl or guy, if anything that would be classism or charity, you are assuming other peoples assumptions are based on gender, when really they are based on circumstance.

    also assumptions based on evidence is what detectives do, and keeping the peace and helping fables is what sheriff bigby does

    Lupine posted: »

    what an enlightening discussion. it is very interesting that some people are instead answering the question: "does giving faith fict

  • edited October 2013

    are we SURE that she is a prostitute and that she is 'working' when we meet her?

    Yes, this was obvious and not even open to discussion.
    And it's -of course- confirmed when we tell Snow that this beheaded girl was a prostitute : the game notifies us that "you chose to tell Snow the truth"
    No offense but it would take a high level of stupidity to still wonder what Faith might have been doing dressed like that at a lonely man's house, in a dispute about the money he owes her, and then telling us about the troubles she'll be in with her pimp...

    Oh well, perhaps she was after all a strong empowered woman who, just coming back from a feminist "slut walk" (thus the clothes), went to the Woodsman's to collect 100 magical mushrooms he had lost the day before to Faith's lesbian companion Pimprenelle (aka "Pimp") in a non-sexist mixed strong arm contest.

    ...But the real sexism was to assume she needed any help against angry Woody. She could totally have kicked the Woodsman's ass and I feel terrible for making her feel less of a strong independent person by deciding to fight for her.

    Geez.

    Lupine posted: »

    what an enlightening discussion. it is very interesting that some people are instead answering the question: "does giving faith fict

  • As firmly as your tongue was in its cheek during this post, even if she was capable of handling the Woodsman, it's still Bigby's job to intervene. You also forget to mention that there's a clear correlation between Faith's race and the percentage of people who chose to give her money. Would any of us have given her the money if she hadn't been white? Come to think of it, both Snow and Faith were white... could the killer actually be a black supremacist out for revenge? Inquiring minds want to know!

    Honestly.

    are we SURE that she is a prostitute and that she is 'working' when we meet her? Yes, this was obvious and not even open to

  • edited October 2013

    Now that you mention it...
    The beheading also rings the "jihad" bell. Except islamist fanatics decapitate men, not women, which they stone to death.
    Uuunless... Our black islamist (definitely a member of Nation of Islam and devout follower of Farrakhan) won't discriminate infidels based on gender : which means the killer is also a feminist -therefore also a communist.
    All clues lead to a black communist islamist woman...

    That's it. The killer is Michelle Obama.

    nofacej posted: »

    As firmly as your tongue was in its cheek during this post, even if she was capable of handling the Woodsman, it's still Bigby's job

  • I gave that kid in mass effect 2 some money to get off of omega, because he needed it and i was a nice guy. Same with Faith, had no reason with her being a woman. Felt bad i couldnt pay the drink though in the bar :)

  • I gave her my money because I wanted to be nice.

  • Ok, I'll be the one to say it - yes, I gave her money purely because she was a woman. Since TWAU is so heavily noir, I find myself following noir conventions as I'm playing Bigby. In all my favorite noir stories, the hard-boiled detective always seems to have a soft spot for women - especially women who have fallen on hard times. Even if the character normally wouldn't lift a finger to help a stranger, he'd always make an exception for a woman in need. That seemed to be the right thing to do to fit the story.

  • How is believing what she said the definition of sexism? When we first met her she was being roughed up by a drunken man who hired her services. We didnt know anything else about her but that. We didnt know anything about the overlying mystery until after she was dead so I dont see any reason to doubt that she needed anything other than money to pay her pimp.

    Lupine posted: »

    what an enlightening discussion. it is very interesting that some people are instead answering the question: "does giving faith fict

  • edited October 2013

    The more "accesible" ladies the better, if you know what I mean :D

    Yep, I'm sure sex always have a role on this kind of situations.

  • am I the only one to have studied detective fiction? oh well.

    first of all, she does not say much of anything. the way all of you are perceiving the scenario is flat out incorrect. so, either you are being obtuse or sexist or both. I mean, in my comment above I tried to explain what I meant.

    none of you have to agree with my points, at all. but to go so far as refusing to understand what I am saying? wow.

    on a final note, how are you going to feel when you realize that you gave the last of Bigby's cash to the culprit? or, true to form, will you deny it ever happened?

    KCohere posted: »

    How is believing what she said the definition of sexism? When we first met her she was being roughed up by a drunken man who hired h

  • We all understood what you were saying. We pointed out why we think you're wrong. If you'd like to counter our points or clarify cases in which we misunderstood what you were saying, then do so. Sitting there and claiming to have "studied detective fiction" does nothing to support your argument.

    As far as I can tell, all you seem to be saying is that our conclusion that Faith was a prostitute may have been premature. While it's true that the fact that she wore skimpy clothes, was at a stranger's apartment in the middle of the night, said that her name was "whatever you want it to be," was called a "whore," was afraid of her employer, and was owed $100 for some reason doesn't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that she was a prostitute, it's pretty damn good circumstantial evidence. What, do you need Telltale to show the sex and exchange of money before you're comfortable making a call? There's such a thing as subtlety, you know.

    And I seriously doubt that the culprit behind everything was really interested in Bigby's money.

    Lupine posted: »

    am I the only one to have studied detective fiction? oh well. first of all, she does not say much of anything. the way all of you

  • You're a clown, lol.

    Lupine posted: »

    am I the only one to have studied detective fiction? oh well. first of all, she does not say much of anything. the way all of you

  • If I had enough money, I would've given everyone something lol. I gave her the money as well, but I wanted to pay for the Whisky also, even if the situation was fucked up and Holly didn't give two shits.
    Yes, I would've given Dee the money, if he'd been hit by a drunken guy with an axe laying in the corner.
    For me, it's about how nice a character is, not how good looking or attractive.

  • Exactly! And because I could. I do the same IRL when my means and the situation make it applicable. And no, for me (female) sex is not a deciding factor.

    I gave her my money because I wanted to be nice.

  • I'm also a female player and gave her money for the same reasons. She seemed a nice character but she'd definitely had a bad night so you do feel bad for her. She's gone to do her job that she clearly doesn't want to do and instead got beaten up by a drunk with no money to pay her. She also saves you from Woody strangling you when she could just as easily walk away so I think that's reason enough to help her out.

    I also opt'd to walk away from Gren even though he was a jackass to me.

    I was wondering the same thing. I'm a female player and I chose to give her the money because I genuinely felt bad for this characte

  • I just play the good guy in games. If it was a male in need of some money and he wasn't an ass, then yeah i'd have given him the money as well. The fact that it was a woman had nothing to do with it for me.

  • Yeah, as most are saying; this didn't have anything to do with her gender. But, if we had a choice between a male or female? I think gender definitely would play a role in people's decision, I know it would for me at the very least. That's just how evolution made us, though. No harm in it, in my humble opinion. Great topic by the way, very interesting, indeed.

  • ...Seems like two people can't into absurd humor.

    Now that you mention it... The beheading also rings the "jihad" bell. Except islamist fanatics decapitate men, not women, which the

  • Giving Faith some cash was merely an act of generousity and not something else.

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