Something doesn't make sense...

Ok. Aside from the fact that day and night seems to come and go at random in this game (or the days are really short...), something bugs me about Prince Lawrences death...

You find him lying on the floor, appearantly having shot himself.
However, when you investigate Bigby says the gun lying beside him hasn't been fired recently. Yet Tweedle Dee claims, in the alley, that he told Lawrence about Faith's death, causing him to shoot himself while Dee was with him.

Also, what was with the bloody knife on the floor?

Sorry if this has been asked already, but It doesn't quite make sense to me. :P



  • i guess an autopsy will show how he died, but maybe it was heartbreak that finally finished him off

  • Perhaps, but that doesn't quite explain the blood on Dee's face and hands.

  • that is there even if you go to lawrence's first and chase him off, so that blood is probably another crime, or maybe Toad's blood

  • I wondered about the gun thing as well. Dee must be lying about seeing Lawrence shoot himself. As far as I understand it, lawrence has indeed tried to kill himself for quite some time - there are sleeping pills, the bullet in the wall fits a suicide attempt as well - but he did not die because of either. Fables are hard to kill, as we see in the case of woody surviving an axe to the brain. The strangely sharp dagger seems to have been the way lawrence - or someone else - finally succeeded at killing him. Why Dee is lying is open to speculation.

  • Dee or Dum blew his brains out with their gun.

  • Lawrence was shot - but I think the knife was used to make the pool of blood that spilled over from the corner of the Murphy Bed. Since the blood on Lawrence's hand was completely dried, but the blood pool wasn't, I'm thinking it was done by someone else after he was shot - perhaps it was even used to sever a head - perhaps it was staged to make Lawrence look like he'd killed Faith there and then killed himself.

  • edited October 2013

    To be honest - I'm afraid that might be some mistake of game's creator. I mean that in one case (going to Lawrence first) phrase about gun being not used for week, is matching correctly to everything. Lawrence fired to himself one week earlier, and if Bigby tells him that his wife is dead and he wait in closet long enough, Lawrence is killing himself, right? So it's Prince's reaction for that bad news.

    But when you go to Toad first, and later you come to Lawrence's place, he's dying. Dee told, that he fired himself, when Dee told him about his wife's death. So, that sounds really genuine, doesn't it? Comparing those two situations, we know that Lawrence would behave like that, so Dee is probably telling truth. The only thing which doesn't match that story, is phrase told by Bigby about gun. It's the same, regardless of our choices. Yeah, we can assume that Twiddle Dee was lying. But what if it's just overseight, and that phrase about gunshot week ago just shouldn't be there if we'll go to Toad first?

  • Except we know that Dee is a hired goon and he doesn't seem to have a problem with picking on TJ.

    Dee probably does shoot him if he goes there before bigby

  • Not really, Lawrence seem to have tried cutting himself, but it didn't work either. There are also sleeping pill on the table, so it seems he tried killing himself that way too.

  • edited October 2013

    I see your point - the gun should have been fired recently if Lawrence shot himself again. I just assumed Dee had shot him if you went to Toad's first.

    On my playthough where I went to Lawrence's first - I didn't tell Lawrence Faith was dead - I implied she was missing. Instead of becoming suicidal again - he actually shoots at Dee if you stay in the closet.

  • edited October 2013

    Yeah, that's one possibility. But somehow I believe Dee. He looked quite shocked when he was telling that this guy shoot himself right in front of him, and he couldn't help him. And I've got quite other theory about Twiddles, than being murderers. I think they were looking for something (for Bluebeard maybe) what Faith stole from Woodsman. In that case he couldn't have a reason to kill harmless Lawrence.

  • Okay, but if you go to Toad's first, Dee told us later that he told Lawrence about his wife's death. And how we can know if we tell Lawrence about Faith's death in other gameplay, he really becomes suicidal when someone tell him about it. So Dee's words are quite reliable, don't you think?

  • Except all Faith wanted was the money Woody owed her, only to find out didn't have much on him. Faith didn't steal anything.

    And Dee lied about being a private investigator, he obviously lied about what happened to Lawrence.

  • He is a bully, so not really. Especially since it seems it wasn't Lawrence's gun that was used.

  • Yeah, that's what I'm pointing out in my first post here. Just writing about other possibility.

  • That fables a spy.

  • How you can know if she stole something or not? I think it could happen - he owe her money, didn't give it to her, beat the shit out of her, so she could have grudge against him and steal something to sell it and take her money back. Twiddles were looking for something in Woodsman apartment, you know. And in Faith's place too. And if Faith had this thing when she died, that would be perfect reason for Twiddles to look for murderer - so they can be 'investigators', but only to find that mysterious thing they were looking for.

  • Yeah - I get you you mean here Szczery. It seems completely consistent that since Lawrence attempts suicide if you tell him Faith is dead - then he'd do the same thing if Dee tells him. Dee wouldn't have to shoot him. There should also be a second shell casing lying around too. Something just doesn't add up. I can understand your suspicion that perhaps Telltale just made a mistake (which would be disappointing) but I'm hoping there's still more to the story.

    Also perplexing is - if you do save Lawarence - Dee doesn't get the bloodstain on his shirt, but when Dee shows up at the Trip Trap he's covered in blood.

  • could still be toads blood
    he did bludgeon him with that poker

  • It's made clear they aren't investigators, especially if you as him for an id. The twins are just muscle.

    And Faith didn't really bother looking over the place to steal anything and Woody didn't have much. The only thing of value that he has is the ax and she didn't bother taking it.

  • If you go to The prince's house first he isn't dead. He shot his own lung and you go hide. Dee comes in and if you wait till Dee walks around the house Lawrence head-shots him-self.

  • edited October 2013

    He is being dead by the sword/knife. I pick up the tarot and it said 10 of spade on the table where was Snowwhite talking at the phone, and than I saw in the mirror a knife in blood, so I thought that was already dead.
    So he didn't die because of the gun.

  • he only head-shots himself if you tell him his wife is dead, if you just imply shes missing, he tries to shoot dee, and is in fact, still alive in episode 2 according to the preview
    AND if you go to toads first, when you get to lawrences he has the hole in his chest from the time he shot himself, which bigby notes was around a week ago if you inspect the gun, but he also has the hole in his head, which could not have come from his gun as it was just the one shot fired a week ago, meaning he had to have been shot by someone else during the time you were at toads

  • edited October 2013

    I've actually tried to think about why that knife is there , and why is it full of blood ... but managed to get nowhere :(
    Tho I like what you guys pointed out above : How if you go to Toad's first , when investigating Lawrence's - Bigby tells you that the gun has been fired 1 week ago. However Dee says Lawrence just shot himself recently.
    And that's funny , cause if you choose to go to Lawrence first , he will indeed try to shoot himself - but if you go the other way around , things don't match anymore. So Dee probably killed Lawrence ... It kinda makes sense , you should consider this more.

  • Again - we cannot know that. He has few books, right? And Dee was looking for something on Lawrence's bookcase. Maybe Woodsman had something value and never realised that. And how you can know if Faith took something or not? She was quite in trouble, she needed 100 bucks, so I think it is POSSIBLE (not sure, cause it's still theory only. But possible)

  • Hmmm yeah, I forgot about shellcase. That makes just regular overseight less possible.

  • I must say that I think the knife is used to boar a hole in the side of his own head...

  • No - If it was Toad's blood it would already be on his shirt when he arrives at Lawrence's.

  • Maybe he beat the hell out of another person. We don't know what were they doing in that time between knockouting Bigby and arriving at Trip Trap.

  • Yeah - if its not an oversight - its a hint of something Dee's been up to.

  • How do we even know that Dee was at both Toads and Lawrance's? Toad said it's impossible to know who's who. Maybe Dum visited Toads place and Dee went to Lawrance. Maybe it's not even Dee we get to arrest at the end?

  • That's a good point - need to consider that too.

  • They dress differently and I think Dum is not the one who does the investigation, hence the name. If I remember correctly, he had a green shirt on and a different kind of hat, as well as a different voice.

  • Good point. The hole in his head it the one on the side of his head yeah? I think either Dee or he (ha ha rhyme) used the knife to do that wound.

  • edited October 2013

    Well, Bigby did end up with a "gaping head wound". Perhaps that's where the blood came from? And also, guys, its Dum at Toad's, not Dee. Dee is at Lawrence's at the same time as Dum is at Toad's. You can only catch one of them in the act, so they must be acting at more or less the same time.

    There's definitely something odd going on with that knife. The knife had blood on it, the blood splatter by the bed made no sense, it certainly isn't from Lawrence, as it's fresher than his week-old gunshot injury. Where is the knife from anyway, it's certainly not mentioned in their fairytale and it looks magical. I can't think it'd be Lawrence's as he's dead broke. Why was it just left? Why on earth couldn't we pick it up? :P

    I tend to believe that he did shoot himself, the fingers are left in a shooting position, the trajectory lines up nicely, the gun and shell-casing are in the right place, for the heart wound. But not the head wound.

  • Actually you can tell him Faith is dead, and have him still survive. I think it depends how long you leave it. I was honest about Faith's death and jumped out when Dee was by the bed/putting the bed back up and he's in my preview for episode 2...

  • I just went back and checked, and it's definitely Dum at Toad's place if you go there first, he's got the flat cap and the rolled up shirt sleeves if you look carefully. It makes sense as well, since you can only "catch" one of them. Dum at Toad's and Dee at Lawrence's and at the Trip Trap.

  • larence cut himself with knife, and when that didnt work he shot himself and missed. If you gone second to his place dee or dum would do the killing

  • I believe Szczery is entirely right on this one. The gun dialogue (the one that says the gun hasn't been fired in a week) shows up either ways. Dead Lawrence or Unconscious Lawrence.

    Most likely a oversight, I really doubt that Dee would shoot Lawrence and then claim he shot himself, the story is too believable and it fits with the other version of Lawrence if you make another choice.

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