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Kenny, kenny.. How about Lily?

posted by Clem4ever on - Viewed by 15.2K users

Why is everyone go gaga about KENNY being dead or alive but we don't talk about what happen to LILY?

What do you think happen to her? I hope her fate will be explored too.

  • The issue usually comes back to how she was originally intended to be the Lilly in the comics.

    I think bringing her back is fair game after Kirkman's retcon, but it's anyone's guess.

    • True, she isn't the same character. However I've got the feeling that TTG won't bring her back.

    • Kirkman's retcon was such a letdown. I actually think telltales Lilly make more sense and is more in line with how she is pictured in the comic (even though it is a very small role she has) than the Lilly version from "The Road to Woodbury". For that reason people might want to think twice before reading that book.

      "Rise of the Governor" on the other hand is a great read. This is one of the best zombie books I have read.

      • I didn't know Kirkman had retconned Lilly out of TWDG until recently. I thought it was a poor choice on his part because, like you say, the game version of Lilly tied into the comics so well. I choose to believe this is her and that she went to Woodbury after being cast out by Lee's group.

  • Either of them meeting clem would need at least some explanation, maybe at a community or something but besides that...

  • Bring her back so we can kill her, please.

  • They'd make good walkers.

  • Could be.. I don't know though..

  • I can't explain why, I just personally feel the sight of Lily running off into the woods (or abandoning the group in Kenny's RV) should be the last we ever see of her throughout the entire series. Some characters simply "disappear" from THE WALKING DEAD altogether, with their fate ultimately left for the audience to decide, and in Lily's case, I think it would be appropriate.

    But you know what? A walker cameo by Lily might actually be quite poignant. I'm not suggesting this out of hate for Lily herself (I sometimes even liked her more than Carley or Katjaa), but a scene where Clementine spots a zombified Lily in the middle of a crowd of walkers could be genuinely moving. It's the sort of "oh no, THAT'S what happened to her" moment, much like Lee seeing his brother outside the drug store, that would be especially heartbreaking.

    • I agree but I think she should see Ben, she really liked him and he could become a walker if you dropped him at the bell tower. I also hope Russell from 400days is the new Ben for Clementine.

      • The problem with Ben is, besides the fact that many didn't drop him, that Clem left Savannah and it's unlikely that the Walker Ben would have followed her.

        With Lilly I think the biggest problem is, like I said earlier, the association with the comic book character. I believe that, even if she isn't Lilly Caul anymore, TTG might want to forget her, because of the whole episode where they had to retcon her as separate character. Her whole story arc was supposed to explain what happened to her before Woodbury.

      • If Ben shows up its really weird, since he was surronded by walkers and was most likely eaten. And I think Clem prefered Omid to Ben, but I'm guessing Russel (if he returns) can have the same kind of relantionship taht Ben had with Clem because of their ages ;) But totally differente personalities, Ben was scared and trusted others and besides every mistake he allways tried to do the right thing, he was mostly weak but goodhearted ( the scenes where he wishes he died really screwed me up since I had that thoughts when I was his age). Russel on the other hand is brave and assertive, doesn't trust other people and fights for what he wants (not just a follower). Ben was more of a friend and Russel could be more of a big brother or something (if she was older possibily a love interest, but I guess not with that age).

      • "I also hope Russell from 400days is the new Ben for Clementine."
        Oh, I do not want another Ben. I really wish there had been a choice to leave him behind at the start of Episode 2

    • heartbreaking.

      That's not the word I would have chosen. I'm really surprised to see how many people liked Lilly.

      • Well, that's his opinion. :)

      • I'm talking about Clem seeing Lily from her point of view, not some random Lily hater's. Lily might have been a piece of work, but in the end she was still pitiable, even after murdering Carley/Doug in cold blood.

        • Actually someone (I forgot who) bought up the fact that Clementine doesn't seem phased by the fact that Lilly murdered Carley. Only when she murders Doug does she seem concerned. Maybe this means Clementine can forgive Lilly if they run into each other?

          • I didn't really notice that much difference between her reactions. In my first playthrough, I was worried it was a sign that Clem was getting numb to the horrors occurring around her. (Upon reflection, it's probably at least partly true.)

            There's one interesting extra scene that's activated if you bring Lily onto the RV. Clem asks Lee what he's planning to do with her, and Lee's response (regardless of whatever it is) always follows up with a "Clementine will remember this." It could possibly play a factor into a future meeting between Clem and Lily, if she ever ran into her again.

            • When Lilly aims at Ben, the characters see it and Clem even shouts "Ben!" there is more time for a reaction. With Carley's death, it came out of nowhere with everyone's head's turned, and I think Clem was horrified just the same, but scared stiff.

              • Watch the video again and closely look at Clementine when Lilly is pulling out her gun. She clearly sees her pulling it out. I don't know, just thought it was interesting.

                • I watched the scene, and I definitely saw Clem turning her head to look at Lily, just as she's reaching back to pull out the gun. Clem had more than enough time to cry out a warning, which is a little...worrisome.

                  Clem's still young. She probably just assumed Lily was about to do something else, and became confused/shocked upon seeing the gun. Then Lily murdered Carley before she could shout to Lee. If that's what happened, she'd only feel like she had a part in Carley's death, which might explain her long silent phase while Lee is trying to get the train started.

                  • I watched it again, it does look like she glances over right before it happens. She definitely could never have expected Lilly to do what she did, though. None of us did.

        • I think this is the biggest issue with TWD game (while also playing to its greatest strengths): We view our own playthroughs as "what happened," so-to-speak.

          For me, Lilly wasn't pitiable at all -- she constantly alienated and attacked everyone in the group, and I knew that she was going to snap at some point...and whose point-of-view are you talking about? Clem's, or Lilly's? Because in my playthroughs, Clem, while maybe not hysterical at losing Carley, seemed resolutely saddened at what happened, but not shaken by Lee's (my) decision -- which was to leave her at the side of the road.

          As for the rest of your conjecture...I think it's just that: You're assuming that Clem noticed Lilly going for her gun, which is a detail she could have missed.

          • and whose point-of-view are you talking about? Clem's, or Lilly's?

            Clem's. I don't care who you might be, seeing someone you knew as a zombie would be an unnerving experience. You say you don't have any pity for Lily, then that's your prerogative. I only pitied Lily in the sense that you pity a mad dog; it's a sad sight to behold, but a dangerous one all the same.

            Besides, at the point we become Clementine, everyone she knew from S1 will either be gone or missing, so seeing Lily in such a state would obviously cause some distress for Clem.

            Oh, one other thing: If I'm conjecturing about Clem noticing Lily's gun, then you're conjecturing that Clem doesn't care one iota about Lily's fate. We don't hear enough from Clem on the topic to really know one way or another, aside from the aforementioned talk with Lee if you brought Lily along in the RV.

            • I guess it would but unnerving...and I guess it does depend on who we're talking about in the apocalypse -- I swear I remember Rick noticing a zombified person (or two) and not batting an eye, but maybe I'm misremembering.

              Outlining pity in that sense...I can buy your angle. I thought your posts implied a much more sympathetic stance.

              I think it's less conjecture to base my opinion about my playthrough on a multiple-scene dialogue, as opposed to a brief frame of someone's face. I guess you're right in that it's still conjecture, though. It plays back into the first part of my other reply -- we buy too much into our own games!

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    UndeadEuan BANNED

    I want Lilly to either come back forever, or stay gone.. she's my favourite character, and I certainly don't want her dead..

    • This, although keeping her away does at least allow players who have read the comics to ignore the book if they want to and assume TT Lilly is Comic Lilly. She'd have to be there for a good reason though. Of course if Tavia's Community turns out to be Woodbury, problem solved?

  • THANK YOU!!! been waiting for somebody else like me who is sick of that dead scumbag Kenny. Lilly should definitely come back at some point IMO. She's obviously alive and one of the best characters. She could come back so many different ways too...

    • Depending on what you did in the meat locker, Kenny either helps you out in the drug store, or leaves you for the walkers. But no matter what you do with Lily, she exposes your secret to the rest of the group, apparently because she just wants to drag someone down into hell with her.

      You can find out a lot about a character's disposition from different playthroughs, and I found out Lily has a mean streak even longer than Kenny's.

    • Sick scumbag Kenny? I'll admit that Kenny isn't a saint, but please read this:
      This was a post made a while back in the older forums in a response to a post in a team Lilly thread.

      "OK, I know this is a Lilly fan thread but I can't help but disagree with all of your reasonings. Those points is something a fan(which I know you are) would say.

      The Real Lilly Caul was nothing but a hypocritical, cold, paranoid, unreasonable, whiney, selfish, cowardly, lazy, backstabbing, murderous bitch.
      Her idea of staying safe was staying at the Pharmacy, it's obvious she was clueless and didn't know what she was doing. She selfishly was willing to let Lee, Kenny and the rest to die and just stood there while her Dad was talking about throwing out a little kid. Even after the heart attack, she ran up to the guys that she didn't want to help and begged them to help her dad, good thing they had the heart to help. After meeting her, it's clear she was a Terrible Leader.

      I see you condemn Kenny for only doing things for his family but that's where you're wrong, he's actually a better leader. At the Pharmacy, he took charge and decided to help Larry even though he had no reason(trying to throw his son out) but he still did, he played a key role in getting the group out of the pharmacy, went back to save someone who was not his family member(Lee) after he was left for dead by Lilly's dad and made the decision to fix the RV(in which Lilly was against) and we all know how useful that turned out to be. He even had the guts to take the food from the station wagon(against Lilly's wishes).
      OK, the only one that seemed to be negative to Lilly was Kenny and only Kenny. Nobody else and if you don't give it to the kids including Clem who is also not Kenny's family, he'll be pissed with you. Lilly was over exaggerating thinking people hated her because she's insane. Besides, I'm sure rationing food was not as hard as going out in Walker infested woods to find it(Kenny, Mark, Lee), compared to them, she doesn't have it so bad.
      Reasonable? She acted like you owed her father something! If you don't give him food, she'll tell you "that's cold" at the farm even though she knows that he already tried to kill you after you saved his life and constantly treated you and everybody else like thrash and expected you to do favours for him. She expected everybody to put up with his crap. And don't tell me she didn't know, Kenny & Clementine witnessed it and if Mark the new guy knows about then surely everybody at the camp knows, basically, the group is not big enough so there is no place for her to hide from the truth. And she even doesn't listen to Kenny's advice on leaving Macon, she's only staying just for the drug store for her dad(and you say that Kenny makes decisions for his family?)

      And killing Larry. Put it this way, if he came back as a Walker, it would've been more difficult to take him out considering they had no weapons. Kenny had a reason to do what he did especially against a guy that didn't give his son the benefit of the doubt. What was Lilly's reason for murdering Carley? Nothing!
      No, Lilly was being lazy like always. Sitting her ass at the motel doing nothing and sends Lee & Kenny to scavenge food, Yeah, make the guy with a gun shot wound get supplies. That would keep you alive right?. And Kenny looked traumatized for what he did to Larry, he even said sorry.
      OK, Kenny was looking for food & fixing the RV, yeah, how is that doing nothing, Lilly on the other hand was sitting her ass doing nothing. Kenny was the one that suspected the St Johns up to no good while Lilly was clueless, didn't want him snooping around. Kenny saved the group, out of the two, he was the only one that had the balls to do anything. And how did he abandon all? he even asked Lee if he wanted to come with, and in the end he took everybody including the one that didn't want him fixing it(Lilly)
      You're blaming Carley and saying she did nothing? Really??
      Who saved Lee twice, who assisted him and discovered the motel, who assisted him to the farm, who went back to save the group from the St Johns, who shot Andy St John in the ear that gave Lee enough time to get the gun away from him, who helped lee fight off bandits and walkers.
      And you say that's nothing? She did more then what Lilly has ever done.

      And how was the downfall her fault? We have not witnessed one group discussion, is it because she didn't want to get involved in the Lilly/Kenny conflicts which was smart on her part. Blaming her is like saying it's the rape victims fault that they were raped.
      She did it to save her own ass, she was lucky the bandits didn't execute the rest of the group after the shot she took. And don't forget, Kenny's RV got them out of there as well, the RV in which Lilly told him was a waste of time.
      Explain how he nearly got you killed?
      He saved your ass countless times, it was Lilly who nearly got you killed by nearly letting you die in Ep2, by sending you out to find more food in a Walker infested city.
      Ben got Katjaa & Duck killed. Your hero Lilly murdered Carley for no dam reason. Kenny saved the group with the RV and from Larry(to prevent him from turning). Lilly was the one that ripped the group apart
      Lilly had no balls to kill someone to their face, she waited until their back was turned and stole the RV because she's a true COWARD. She was dumb enough to believe the Motel was safe.

      She's a hypocrite and a liar, So it's okay to let people get eaten in the streets(kenny's group) and woods(Ben's group) because it could jeopardise the group but it's not okay to let people get eaten in the streets even though it could jeopardise the group(Woman on the street). She's Unreasonable & Whiney, Kenny tries telling her Motels not safe, but she doesn't listen, that put the group in jeopardy from the bandit attack, she volunteers you for stuff such as going to the Farm and even if you reject that, she riles everyone up for you to go, and she has the nerve to tell you why you brought her there even though she sent you out there in the first place.

      She's lazy, sits at the motel doing nothing and sends other people to do shit she should be taking part in. And lastly, she's a paranpoid murderer, she killed an innocent person for no reason, that makes her much worse then what Kenny did to her dad. She was pressuring Ben to admitting it was her when she had no proof then killed her because she defended herself, how can people justify what she did. I know she lost her dad but that doesn't give her a good reason. If she killed Carley, who never did a damn thing to her, then she'll kill anyone and the comics prove it. She didn't even look sorry after killing Carley, she still tried to justify her actions and you say Kenny was never sorry, what about Lilly?

      Lastly, she's a selfish backstabbing bitch, she puts lee on the spot whether you sided with her or not by telling Kenny that you're a murderer, hoping to cause some tension between the two and steals the RV after you were kind enough to take her, Kenny fixes the RV and she takes it, killing you and others including Clementine, the sweet little girl that you say cares about her. The RV was useless but she did not know that, she did it to save herself, if she wanted to part ways with dignity, she should've ran instead of taking something that left the people that protected you for months vulnerable.

      Bottom Line, your arguments for her make no sense, it's like you took traits from other characters and placed them on Lilly.

      I see some people compare her to Rick Grimes? Unless he starts killing innocent people and is lazy then he's more like Lilly but She's more like Shane Walsh. Both are Lazy, both send other people to do things, both refuse to help people even their own group, both are backstabbers and both kill innocent people though Lilly does have extra aspects that make her worse.

      Lilly is worse than Shane & Lori(TV series) put togeather.
      am not a Kenny Lover but he's no where near as bad as Lilly. I just have common sense to see Lilly for what she is and not what I want her to be. YamiRaziel seems to be the biggest Lilly fanatic and his reasoning’s make no sense so I take it that's what all you Lilly fans arguments to excuse her behaviour are like. From what I've seen, Kenny outshined Lilly, his decisions proved affective and her fans hate him for it.
      It's clear you have not read my arguments that list her flaws and why her sins are much worse. But I'll just examine your arguments and pick them apart.

      Granted Kenny messed up and let Shawn Green die, I'm not defending that, but at least he felt guilty, he had been beating himself up for months, in the train, he breaks down if Lee would bring it up, even if you decide to save Duck, Kenny still takes all the responsibility of Shawn’s death on him, he doesn't bring Lee into the blame. At least he felt some guilt, I can't say the same for Lilly who felt nothing.

      As for Larry, he did it to prevent him from turning. The guy did after all threaten to throw his son out to be eaten alive, did not apologize after being proven wrong, Kenny still tried to help him, he left his friend for dead and became difficult to live with. Let's not forget Kenny was not all to blame, the guy knew he had a bad heart but still went smacking away, Kenny even told him to shut up while Lilly was throwing up(some leader huh, can't even manage her own father). Look through his point of view, 6"4 300 pound possible dead guy can come back as an unstoppable killing machine at any minute, he had to act fast, though he did act harshly but then again, Larry did try to kill you and will do so again. Even what he did, he at least had a reason.

      I'll admit, him leaving you at the drug store like that was messed up but then again, Lilly does that as well, I don't see you condemning her. And the leaving thing, yeah, it turns out to be not such a bad idea after all. He had it right. Lilly put the group in danger by keeping them at the motel with a bandit attack that can strike at any moment and food running out in Macon.

      Have you forgot that the teenager got his family killed and have you also forgot that Lilly tried to kill that teenager and Lilly fans were saying she was right in doing so. So if Kenny does it, it's bad, but if Lilly does it, it's good? Makes your arguments look one sided doesn't it. Let's not forget Lilly wanted Kenny dead so how is Kenny wanting Ben dead any different and knowing the cunt that Lilly is, she would've wanted Lee to drop Kenny if it came to that. Besides, he redeems himself with that teenager by forgiving him and being with him in his final moment and allows himself to be devoured just to put him out of his misery. Would Lilly do that? No, the real Lilly abandoned them.

      Drinking in a situation, really, you're angry at him for that? Put it this way, he's plan is over, there is no boat to escape, a guy on the radio is stalking them. And not taking everyone on the boat, well he can't can he, it's only enough for five people, you're blaming him because they didn't find a yacht in the garage really? And him yelling at you, how many times has Lilly done that and criticized your decisions? Again, you're making this one sided.

      And him stealing from the car, the only person to blame for that was the idiot owner of the car for leaving it there in the first place. With Mark gone and him injured, it was going to be hard for him to find food even before and he saw the opportunity and took it because he knew lazy Lilly was going to have him scavenge anyway and he needed to get food for his friends & family.

      And the last one, Kenny judging you because you didn't side with him, people are like that, at least he's willing to take you on the boat and may I ask you where is Lilly, oh that's right, robbed you, abandoned you and left your group for dead. She's a real hero isn't she.
      Again. Why is this a big deal?
      They were clear of danger at that point.
      The man lost his family, found a dead boy that looked like his son, found that his plans to escape on a boat was dust and realised it was all for nothing while being stalked by The Stranger, all in one day, he's obviously struggling and gave up and is drinking in grief. And not watching Clem, well Clem did wander off in Lee's presence that led to her being kidnapped by the Stranger so blaming him for not watching her is hypocritical considering you didn't watch her as well.

      You can't forgive this yet you can forgive Lilly for murdering an innocent person and leaving 6 people for dead???

      And now you're blaming him for Clem dissappearing? How is it his fault to begin with? she was in the house with Lee while he was working on the boat. It was Lee's responsibility but I'm not going to blame him either. And how did he continue to reprove Lee about the boat? He didn't mention it when he found out Clem was kidnapped, if you're counting about that time he said he was not going to leave it unguarded, well that's smart thinking, he's not dumb like the Stranger and was right, Vernon ended up stealing it so it should've been guarded though he was unsuccessful at guarding it if he stayed behind but at least he put up a fight.

      And you're last sentence, "A child is a child, nothing more."
      Tell me what Lilly did, oh I remember, she abandoned the Child and left not one but two for dead and yet somehow Kenny is a monster and she's a Saint?
      A) And she was pointing fingers at anyone, she even tried to accuse Lee so how was she supposed to be taken seriously with her ramblings, even I knew at that point that the traitor was doing it to keep the bandits off there back.
      B) She didn't know the little boy was bitten and the loss of the motor inn was her fault, even if there was no traitor, bandits would've attacked them and possibly have killed them because she arrogantly believed the motor inn was a safe haven.
      C) I would believe that, if she didn't take the RV!! You want to go to spare your friends of your misery then you're welcome to go but don't take something that you never worked on and that something will make the group that includes 2 innocent kids and possibly your friend(if you sided with her) vulnerable, leaving them for dead. The fact that she stole the RV proved that she was nothing but a Backstabbing Weasel looking out for herself. Heck, she didn't even look guilty, she looked like she didn't give a F***. I don't buy that she was ashamed, she knew exactly what she did and didn't feel bad due to her cold, emotionless reaction upon taking the RV.
      D) She killed an innocent person when their back was turned, doesn't do anything, whines and complains, is a bully, is a rotten thief that would leave a little girl to die. Yeah, where is the strong in that?
      E) She took the life of an innocent person for no reason other than her own personal feelings and cowardly left 6 people for dead. She's no different from The Governor & Negan. She's above cruel.

      These 5 are very true, what you have is again, making her out to be something she's not.
      Really? Rudeness? So it's rude to stay alive?
      And what goodbye? She couldn't let him go and he could've came back at anytime, it was hard thing but he believed it needed to be done for their own survival, I think that quote suits that situation. He could've came back as a cannibalistic dead guy, yeah, then I doubt thought of "Take your time to say goodbye while it would be rude to save ourselves" was going to stick even though she didn't want to say goodbye anyway.

      And fairytale? You would know all about that. As I said, Larry did try to kill his son by wanting to throw him out, what father would forgive that? You think he did that just to be leader? I don't think he had any interest, Lilly was a terrible leader, he saw that. Two things that might've been in his head, Revenge & survival, also Larry did try to kill Lee, don't forget that.
      So you prefer a crazy, lazy, unreasonable, murderous she-devil that would make you do all the work while she does nothing and will kill you if you disagree with her as your companion over a tough guy A-hole that can be reasonable or a cute tough girl that likes you and will definitely have your back? You're asking for a death wish if you want that, remember, one character will have your back to keep you alive, you think Lilly will have your back to keep you alive? No as she shown in the game, Carley would keep you alive, Lilly will ditch you when she gets a chance.

      And when did Carley never assume responsibility when the tough decision is made? Was there even any group discussions, the only one I remember is when you refuse to go to the farm, she participated in that.

      Can you blame her for sticking up for herself, if a crazy bitch was pointing and accusing me of something I never did and had no reason to do so while she was pressuring a weak teen to falsely accept her lie of me being a traitor then yeah, I would be mad too, call her all sorts of names, heck I would slap her because remember, Carley never did anything to her before all that. Carley was even worried about her.
      And you think Lilly did nothing bad before her loss? She would let people die, be a bitch to you, force you to things you decline to do, need I say more.
      Ummmmm Lilly did. She sure acted like they needed a leader. No one gave Kenny that title because he didn't take it anyway and had no interest, all he cared about was survival of the group. The RV, him searching for food with Lee, not trusting the St John farmers were sure a lot more deserving of a leadership position than Lilly ever did.
      Where did this even come from? I don't recall her glazing into his eyes romance style and taking an interest. She's only reasonable if you kiss her ass and agree with everything she says, when he says something that disagrees with her motive, she screams and becomes a bitch about it and you try to pass that trait off to Kenny, not saying he's reasonable but he never shouts at you, only once I remenber him shouting at you that's when he's beating you up, Lilly's no different from him but at least Ken is reasonable while Lilly is not. The only ideas she respected was her own, she expected others to respect it, those that disagree, she'll act like a cunt but Kenny wouldn’t bow down to her tyranny which is why they fight so much.
      Kenny only acts like a loser towards you if you don't help him kill the guy who tried to kill you. The others, his reactions are normal and that's it, he doesn't hold a grudge against you for not taking the food or saving Ben, he'll still call you a friend and even if he does act like a loser towards you for not siding with him against Larry, he'll apologise to you later on. He's only mad because you didn't help him take out a guy that was a danger to you and him and even before his heart attack, tried to kill you and his son and possibly be a danger to others which is a reasonable reaction. Lilly acts like a loser when you don't agree with her, at least Kenny's reason is down to survival, Lilly's reason is selfishness. At least Kenny would call you a friend, would Lilly? Answer to that is NO! At least I'm not trying to paint Kenny as a Saint as you and others have been doing with Lilly.
      Did Lilly respect anybody's feelings and the sufferings she endured on them?
      She put people in difficult situations, yeah, I don't think she gave a damn about other people let alone their feelings.
      Yes I watch the series. This is the Zombie Apocalypse which means you're on your own, that means no doctors will help heal you if you fall sick/get injured, no police or fire-fighters will come to your rescue, basically, everything that protected or kept society in check like law & order is gone, in this world, people are showing their true colours like the Governor, cops are going crazy, evil people are showing their faces like Negan because they can't be tou

      • This looks like one of the rants/responses an awesome user named IceRyder wrote, haha. I loved his stuff because it's impossible to argue with, and drives Lilly supporters up the wall.

        • It's impossible to argue with, because no one has patience to read posts that long so they don't know what he is arguing about. :D

          • It's long because he brings up literally every argument a Lilly-supporter would use, tears it to shreds, lights it on fire, then pisses on it.

            • The length of that post was just ridiculous!

            • Since when people use or need logical arguments for liking or disliking someone? It doesn't work that way in real life. You can be the nicest guy in the world, but still the chances are that many people like some inconsiderate douchebag more than they like you.

              In any case even if you make a good argument, it doens't have any weight in conversation unless people you are arguing with read your arguments. And burying your arguments into a wall of text makes that very unlikely.

        • Yup. This was from him. I found it in an anti Lilly thread on a smaller forum about the walking dead. Ice Ryder wasn't the one who posted it, but someone copy pasted his entire rant into a single post. I had to break it up on these forums.

      • This makes Lilly fans cry ;)

      • Actually, Lilly seemed to be supporting Kenny she says the line
        that 'He's just a kid' however she seems fearful when confronting
        her father. We have no idea how her father was, but from what we
        can tell Larry was quite aggressive and I'd even imagine Lilly had
        trouble working up enough courage to just mutter that line.

        Plus we do not know if Lilly was going to force the group to stay
        at the Pharmacy - Like she said she was trying to get
        nitroglycoren pills for her father. Oh excuse her for trying to
        aid a family member.

        Even so, in the Walking Dead people are forced to make tough decisions.
        I find it quite hypocritcal when it comes to his own butt Kenny is
        ready to slam Lilly down for not saving him and his group however
        when we clearly saw that girl who needed help - To him, he dismissed
        any thought of helping her and even wanted to use her as bait to
        drive walkers away from them whilst they scavenged supplies.

        Also Kenny did play a key role in helping the group in Episode 1,
        yes I'll admit that. However his plan to drive to Savannah just to
        get onto a boat was plain stupid and was illogical, because why did
        he not think a heavy populated city would have a heavy population
        of walkers or why didn't he think people would panic and just try
        to steal boats. Even Crawford stole parts from boats and such.

        He also having the "guts" to take food from the station wagon
        resulted in the death of the Strangers Wife, Daughter, Lee and Ben
        and made a madman want to seek Clementine and put her in danger.
        Lilly was actually moral and clever and chose not to take from other
        people and if the group had simply followed this even if they went
        to Savannah the group could have left without Lee dying or Clem
        being kidnapped.

        Plus those "walker" infested woods seemed pretty safe until there
        was all that noise from the "Bear Trap" incident. Noise attracts
        walkers and Lee, Mark and Kenny were all being quiet they would have
        been fine.

        Also there is no implication that Lilly knows about Larry trying to
        murder Lee. Just because Kenny, and Clementine witnessed it, doesn't
        mean they told her.

        What Kenny did to Larry was unforgivable, and pretty much showed he was
        hypocritcal. When his son is being accused of turning its immoral but
        when its someone elses family - They have to die. No questions asked.
        Also if Kenny had thought for a moment, Lee would have been able to
        rescue Larry as he took a sharp breath just before Kenny murdered him.

        But oh well Lill probably deserves her father to die, because she is
        so evil.

        Lilly's reason for murdering Carley was pretty obvious, out of all the
        possible members of the group. Kenny had a family and would NEVER risk
        his family for anything even if it meant stealing meds. Lee wouldn't
        risk Clementine. Carley and Ben had no connections and the fact that
        Carley seemed intellgent and able to handle herself made it clear that
        she could be the only suspect to run this "meds" operation as to Lilly Ben
        was "just a kid" who she thought didn't have the intelligence to run
        a "med operation" like this.

        Though what Lilly did was wrong, she had every reason to suspect it was

        Oh and whose fault was that gunshot wound? Oh yes, Kenny the man who thought
        in order to save my son, I should run towards that gunman in a straight
        line whilst he's pointing a gun at me. Apart from this, Lilly had military
        training and Carley was the best shot there, if bandits attacked they would
        be required to kill them.

        Plus there is no evidence suggesting that both Lee and Kenny
        displayed their 'shooting skills' to the group, and Ben, Katjaa and
        Duck are too weak to send out in scavenging missions and would therefore
        need protection and the safest place was the motel.

        Lilly had no other option but to send BOTH Lee and Kenny, as sending one
        person to gather supplies in the Walking Dead is pretty much a suicide

        Also, just by being brave and doing something. Doesn't mean its the right
        thing, Kenny didn't save the group he gave himself a gunshot wound by being

        Lee and Carley saved the group (And Lilly if you saved her father).

        Also "kind enough to take her"? Yeah, it's so kind to keep someone hostage and imply
        that they should get punishment.

        The bottom line here, is that. Just go with who YOU think the better leader is?
        Yes sure I ripped on Kenny on this, however he does seem courageos and loyal to friends
        which are great traits. He's also quite family-oriented and likes to think of other
        people (even though he mostly puts his family first.) Sure, I complimented Lilly however
        she has her faults such as killing Carley (I said she had reason to suspect her not shoot

        Either way, just thought I'd tackle this argument. I hope I did a good enough job. Also I know I didn't cover everything however it is so damn long and I don't think I'm that good to tackle the WHOLE post.

      • I wan't to stab Lilly and feed her to the walkers!

    • Yes I watch the series. This is the Zombie Apocalypse which means you're on your own, that means no doctors will help heal you if you fall sick/get injured, no police or fire-fighters will come to your rescue, basically, everything that protected or kept society in check like law & order is gone, in this world, people are showing their true colours like the Governor, cops are going crazy, evil people are showing their faces like Negan because they can't be touched because there are no rules. That is the world they are living in now, the first instinct was survival so I don't think anyone will have time to mourn when danger will soon come upon them.

      And the scenes you listed are a lot different then Larry's death. Andrea knew Amy was dead, Rick Grimes & co were eager to take her out before she turned, Tyreese and his group knew Donna was dead and that's why they wanted to act fast when they were in a safe place. Notice the surroundings? They were out in the open and had their weapons so it was easy to take their time, Lee's group was stuck in a small meat locker with no where to run, their weapons were gone and the only thing they can use were salt licks, to top it all off, Lilly couldn't accept her dad was dead or was impossible to save, what was he supposed to do, wait until he came back and be impossible to kill, in that time and situation, you would be spending less time thinking about being rude and more time trying to act out ways to protect yourself and others, do you really think Rick Grimes would not have the done the same thing if Carl was in the room with him?

      I'm not defending Kenny, even I think he was too rash but since the guy he killed was a loose canon, it's easy to forgive. You on the other hand, continue to defend a crazy, reckless woman that took the life of an innocent person with no hesitation, no remorse then leaves people for dead including that of a little girl.

      You don't think he looked for a way out? He obviously was, he even said that they need to find another way out when Lee opened his eyes, what was Larry doing, banging the door away when he knew he had a heart problem, what was Lilly the so called true leader doing, throwing up. And all he said was he had no tools, so him having nothing makes him a bad man?

      Again, you condemn Kenny for not using his brain but what about Lilly who never stopped to think and use her head. You always seem to forget her, but since she's your favourite character, you make your arguments one sided.

      I hope she comes across the Saviours or Marauders or the Hunters and is tortured to a painful death. Be doing the world a favour. A monster getting screwed by other monster would be priceless.
      Kenny never cares about anyone huh?
      Who went back to save Lee after your so called heroes father left him for dead? Kenny
      Who sacrificed themselves to save Christa? Kenny
      Who sacrificed themselves just so a scared teenage boy doesn't have to feel the pain of being eaten alive? Kenny

      Now I'll do my own math with Lilly

      Is full of herself + never cared about anyone’s feelings but her dads + reckless + unreasonable + selfish + lazy + crazy + paranoid + puts others in dangers


      Lilly murdered an innocent person who never did a damn thing to her & left Six people for dead. Now that is what you call dastardly, cowardly shoots someone behind their back and cowardly abandons a group for dead.

      She was never going to accept that her father was dead, what could Kenny have done, wait until the situation becomes more difficult.
      So he can't act like a so called Executioner when his life and his friends lives were on the line?
      A 6"4 dead guy would come back to life as a mindless, cannibalistic corpse of a killing machine with no emotions, no pain and would eat you alive and he had no where else to go. You accept that he did it to save himself but since Larry was a family member, you deem it "Rude"?

      And rules? What rules, there are no rules anymore. And your seriously blaming him for unleashing a psychotic disturbed woman to kill an innocent person. And "Payed"? What price did he pay, at least when he paid that so called Price, he did it on his own terms, at least he redeemed himself, I can't say the same for Lilly and you say he needed to face the consequences, again, what about Lilly, don't you think she needs to face the consequences of what she has done and she sure as heck didn't take any responsibility for it.

      And you judge him for bringing up the issue with the group about leaving. Food was running out of the city, bandits are in the area and could attack any moment, it's not like they were living on a farm, what did you expect him to do, nothing while his family and friends are exposed to the risk of an attack and spending the rest of their time and energy in a ruined town full of the dead with no supplies left?

      Lilly never took responsibility for her actions, after murdering Carley, she still tried to justify her actions and took advantage of a group, knowing they could've left her ass after what she did, by taking their vehicle and leaving them for dead. You can say that Kenny killing Larry was selfish & cowardly but Lilly killing Carley was much worse and it was Evil & Vile. There is a huge difference between the two, Kenny had a reason for what he did, Lilly had "NO" reason to do what she did.

    • You can forgive Lilly for murdering an innocent person without reason but you can't forgive Kenny for killing a Douche bag with reason?
      OK, this makes no sense whatsoever and your reasoning’s on why you love her so much make no sense either. So you adore her because she has bad instincts that put others in danger but you hate Kenny because you don't like his decisions that proved to be not so bad? And humanistic, so you're saying that humans kill the innocent and abandon the weak, I know some do but you're making it out like we all do.

      You claim Kenny's actions are slippery, cowardly and treachery and that he always pushes you around, forcing you into hard situations, yelling at you, complaining to you and you can't support anyone like that but have you not noticed, you have been supporting someone like that, Lilly has done these things. You even admit to her being murderer but all this time, you have been condemning Kenny as a murderer. How can anyone claim to like a character but hate another for the decisions they made when the character they like made similar or worst decisions.

      Lilly has always been irritating upon meeting her, she's been selfish, didn't give a damn about other peoples opinions, always unreasonable, her decisions and idea puts you in a difficult spot, expects people to suck up to her rules.

      And the train thing, yeah he pushed you away regarding his son because he's beating himself up over Duck & Shawn Green and blames himself, he was in denial but don’t tell me Lilly has never been in denial?, Kenny eventually comes to his senses afterwards, and don't forget, Batshit Lilly also pushes you away when you tried talking to her so why does she get ignored.
      And I'll declare again that I'm not Kenny lover but I feel sorry for you Lilly lovers, you make her out to be what you want her to be, not what she is. And your arguments are one sided in terms of judging Kenny but overlook at what Lilly did and how she was doing it.

      You say Kenny caused the deaths of everyone, lets look back at who caused who’s death and see if Kenny is to blame for their demise.

      Lilly killed Carley and caused Duck to get bitten by stubbornly staying at the motel which lead to Katjaa's suicide.
      Ben being dumb, led to Duck & Katjaa's demise(bandit dealings) and Brie's death(removing the axe).
      Radioman caused Lee, Kenny & Ben's death but if you want to go further back, Clementine for talking with him in the first place but since she didn't know, I can't fault her that the radio guy was insane.

      So, how did Kenny get everyone killed?

      And I'll ask again, did Lilly respect other peoples feeling, did she listen to other peoples opinions, did she respect Lee's feelings when she ratted him out to be a killer, stabbing him in the back, did she respect Lee’s feeling when she volunteered him to do things he never asked, did she care about anybody else? No.
      So you don't think Lilly killing a good person when their back was turned and leaving good people for dead is treacherous?
      You can call Kenny a traitor but he stuck with you till the end, where was Lilly? Cruising in the RV
      And what good attitude? She was hypocritical, judgemental, lazy, expects you to roll over for her, was unreasonable the moment you meet her, where's the good attitude in that? When you meet Kenny, he's kind towards you and offers you a ride, Lilly is aggressive when you meet her, yeah she has a good attitude alright. Careful, that murderer with a horrendous attitude will shoot you in the back.
      What's wrong with that line?
      What is she doing when you meet her, nothing, she looks like she's losing it, struggled to control her dad and when her dad collapses, she runs to strangers for help and did nothing through the whole of Episode 1. Tell me where the great leader is in that?
      You're actually the third user to tell me about skipping pages. Kind of made me feel guilty for being lazy so I read all the pages. And you claim I'm repeating the same discussion? I don't think anyone brought up points that I brought up?
      Like others, I was responding to your thread.
      Nobody will take me seriously? dukeleto begs to differ.
      I apologize for that "Fanatic" remark, didn't mean to offend. BTW, you did make Lilly out to be what she was not as if you never played the game, and also, didn't you come across a little rude to thestalkinghead guy? Just saying, I’m not the only that was apparently "rude".
      It's not about the choices you make that affects the character to the person they become, it's about the action they take no matter what choices you make.
      As a matter fact, I already did a game play where I sided with her(though I did feel like shit siding with her, made me felt like an asshole and nothing positive came out of it), I did a lot of game plays with different choices, still have the same opinion, I see no changes when you side with her or when your neutral because in the end, it'll always come with the same outcomes. I met nice Kenny & douche bag Kenny but I’ve not met a nice Lilly.

    • You think I’m siding with Kenny due to the choices I made that makes him likeable?
      Not even close, it's not based on people's choices.

      This is how it goes with the two:
      You be a dick to Kenny, he's a dick to you
      You be a nice to Kenny, he's a nice to you

      with Lilly:
      You be a dick to her, she's a selfish bitch to you
      You be a nice to her, she's still a selfish bitch to you

      Notice how she doesn't change. Kenny being a dick hardly causes problems for you but with Lilly, it does.
      Did he push Christa down? No, how is it his fault?, she chose to go down herself and he sacrificed his own life to save her yet you still condemn that action.

      And Ben, same thing, sacrificed his life in a brutal way so a teenager that got his family killed doesn't need to suffer a horrible death. He realized the way he treated him and showed remorse, has Lilly showed remorse for her actions? No, but you assumed she did and slate a character that does.
      That's still not enough. They were locked in a room, what you're asking is for them to do nothing when a guy can reanimate and kill you, your friend and a little girl in that room you're in?
      And why should Kenny leave? As far as he's concerned, he saved 3 peoples lives, Lilly on the other hand committed cold blooded murder.
      There are no rules but there are still Morals, the characters do still possess the knowledge of knowing what's right and what's wrong. Lilly didn't.
      You're still one sided and I'll give you a reason why, you fail to recognize Lilly's flaws, whereas I at least acknowledge that Kenny has flaws.

      Lilly was the one that screwed everything up by pushing the group to that cannibal farm. If she hadn't, the salt lick incident would never have occurred.
      OK, still not convinced that Lilly is not what she seems.

      No matter what choices you make, Kenny will still offer you a ride
      No matter what choices you make, Kenny will still save you in Ep 1
      No matter what choices you make, Kenny will still save you by preventing Larry's reanimation
      No matter what choices you make, Kenny will still take you in the RV
      No matter what choices you make, Kenny is still willing to take you on the boat, bitten or not
      No matter what choices you make, Kenny will still save Christa
      No matter what choices you make, Kenny will still put Ben out of his misery
      No matter what choices you make, Kenny will still stick with you till the end

      Now with Lilly:
      No matter what choices you make, Lilly will still whine at you
      No matter what choices you make, Lilly will still snap at you
      No matter what choices you make, Lilly will still be a hypocrite
      No matter what choices you make, Lilly will still push you to the farm
      No matter what choices you make, Lilly will still push you to start a with hunt
      No matter what choices you make, Lilly will still kill Carley/Doug
      No matter what choices you make, Lilly will still sell you out on what you did before
      No matter what choices you make, Lilly will still stab you in the back
      No matter what choices you make, Lilly will still steal the RV
      There, at least when Kenny's a douche, you can still change it but with Lilly, you can't change nothing and you're leThe drinking issue?
      You say Lilly is a broken woman and she gets a free pass for killing Doug/Carley.
      But Kenny is a broken man but somehow, him drinking is much worse than murder?
      Whether Lee was sleeping or not, he was still in charge of Clementine, you might as well blame Ben, Christa and Omid for losing her as well.

  • I would like Lilly to come back, specially she not the Lilly from the comics anymoe... it would be a way to TT to show us the asme Lilly she was before but as an entire different person from the one in the comics, making her own story ;) About Kenny, I didn't liked him but I don't mind him returning... I guess in the walking dead game fans you will allways have team Lilly and team Kenny, I am team Lilly

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