It's not the bite, so what is it?

edited November 2013 in The Walking Dead

So I started playing The Walking Dead Game Season 1 to fill myself up for waiting for season 2, and do you guys remember when Ben told the group that it's "NOT THE BITE THAT DOES IT"? Well, I'm just wondering if it's not the bite that does it, how come Lee died because of the bite?



  • The bite is infecting the humans with some sort of flu and then the person dies from this walkervirus. But we dont know yet why everyone is infected.

  • Then why did Ben told the group that they're all infected if being bitten triggers the virus?

  • Being bitten triggers just the virus, that kills people i think. Everyone has the virus that turns them into walkers after the death.

  • No, look. The Infection was in the air. Everyone has it. The bite gives you a Virus that kills you. Then you turn because you are infected. You understand? If you die, bitten or not you will become a walker. The bite just kills you.

  • Didnt i say the same Brian? :D

  • edited November 2013

    Everyone is infected for what we know. So if people die, even if they are not bit, they will turn. The bite just makes the virus stronger and helps it spread throught the whole body.

  • edited November 2013

    Guess the cure is gonna come a bit late

  • Yes, the infection is airborne and everyone got it from the start. If you get bitten or scratched by a Walker you get a virus which trigger the infection and the body reacts.

  • edited November 2013

    Well, i think it´s time for a more exhaustive explanation in the comics, i have been waiting for that a long time :p. Two different virus (one in the air that reanimates the dead, and another one in the walkers that kills you) it´s a little bit farfetched. At least the viruses have to be related, like two different families of the same virus. And maybe it´s not a virus, maybe is a bacteria or who knows. We know that everybody is already infected and little more, so i am looking forward for a detailed explanation :p

  • edited November 2013

    Personally, I'm content to just fall back on the original explanation George Romero offered in NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD: Satellite returning from Venus blows up in orbit, covers the entire Earth in alien radiation, and reanimates the dead. :)

  • George Romero so wow, and good job Robert Morgan for telling this

  • That isn't what Ben said. He said that it isn't just the bite that makes people turn, as that is what they previously believed. He said that they come back no matter how they die as long as the brain isn't destroyed, but the bite speeds up the process.

  • edited November 2013

    Two different things:

    1) Everyone becomes a walker when they die (for unknown reasons).

    2) A walker's bite is full of infectious bacteria that eventually kills you (the swiftness depends on location of the bite. It seems that the closer the bite is to the heart or the brain, the more quickly you die from it). If you quickly (not sure how quickly) amputate a bitten limb, you can survive the fatal spread of bacterial infection.

    Either Lee eventually succumbs to the infected walker bite if he was not amputated; or if his arm was amputated, he either eventually dies of shock and blood loss, or the amputation happened too late (TTG has not clarified which. I tend to think it's the latter).

  • edited November 2013

    "A walker's bite is full of infectious bacteria that eventually kills you" Where did you get this from? How do you know it`s a bacterial infection and not another virus? I am not saying your explanation isn´t plausible, but i don´t remember reading anything like that in the comics.

    And there are a few issues with that explanation. For example, if a perfectly healthy person dies suddenly of a heart attack, then he will reanimate and his bite will be already contagious. So, where did the bacteria come from? He didn´t have it a second before but after the reanimation he has. So whatever is making peope become walkers also has to produce the bacterial infection (if it´s a bacterial infection). They have to be related someway.

    Maybe everyone is already infected with that bacteria too, but that would mean that a living person`s bite has to be deadly too i think. Suddenly getting a bacterial infection isn´t very plausible for me.

  • "Maybe everyone is already infected with that bacteria too, but that would mean that a living person`s bite has to be deadly too i think. Suddenly getting a bacterial infection*** isn´t very plausible for me***"

    But the dead rising and overunning the earth's population is? I'm just ribbing you of course, but seeing as we have to throw logic out the window to even immerse ourselves in the story's premise, would it really be such a reach? The world was completely overrun in a matter of weeks - makes as much sense as any other explanation.

    The comics have never really explained the cause and I doubt they ever will as it doesn't add to the story - at least not the story Kirkman is trying to tell - which is exploring how humans might react, evolve or devolve (socially) in an apocolyptic environment. The zombies are just the catalyst.

  • Yeah you are right. It´s just that I'd like an explanation, but i don´t think we are getting one either.

    Anyway, if they decide to explain it they should try to give us a good one. Not every explanation is gonna work for me just because the whole history iays in a unlikely premise. They can´t just say "Aliens did it" or something like that. It can be a virus or a bacteria of course, I can buy that, but the way the infection works should make at least a bit of sense scientifically speaking. And I think the creators of the comics are good enough to make it.

    But as you pointed the story is about the way the humans react in a ZA, so an explanation is unlikely.

  • With Lee I think that it was just the fact that he cut it off too late because the virus was already taking hold ajd he passed out once already by the time they got to it so therefore I think that's why he dies either way

  • Have you ever cut yourself and gotten infected? Puss, swelling, increased temperature around the wound, etc? Well, that's basically what happens when you get bitten, only about 100 times worse. If you get an infected wound, it can kill you if it goes untreated. This gives you a wound that is infected beyond repar.

  • But they cut Lee's arm right?

  • edited November 2013

    Dont make it harder than it has to be though, it's quite obvious that the zombies will carry bacteria and other stuff, just look at what they look like, damn!

    And before they reanimate they have to die, all immune systems and all protection the body had is gone. If you just all of that protection and walked outside you would be sick in minutes if not seconds (depending on where you live of course), the air is filled with bacteria and all kinds of nasty stuff from everything. Yes this has never been cited as an explanation from any of the creators but it's kind of been taken for granted as it makes "sense".

    Also, look at the other post i made. Should clear things up.

  • Zombie Bites

    Zombie bites do not kill because of the zombie pathogen, but rather the unsanitary nature of their mouths due to diet and decomposition. Scratches cause similar infections for similar reasons. Their mouths and saliva often contain several septic factors, specifically the bacteria: E. coli, Staphylococcus sp., Providencia sp., Proteus morgani, P. mirabilis, and multocida. The rapid growth of these bacteria tends to cause extremely virulent strains that are highly resistant to antibiotics, and most often lethal. It can be assumed, however, that an undetermined number of original "outbreak" cases involved recently-reanimated zombies that were relatively intact and "clean", biting others and still causing infectious deaths, indicating that there is a possibility of the zombie "virus" itself producing lethal, transmittable organisms within zombies upon reanimation.

    Symptoms of infection
    The first form of the infection was the transmission of the pathogen from an undead host to a living body via bites and scratches. The second form is already contained within all living people, and merely requires the death of the host to activate the zombie condition. The pathogen causing reanimation is not independently fatal and lies dormant within a host until the host dies of another cause. In the case of Walker attacks, the cause of death is generally infection by necrotic biological debris and other infectious agents contained in that debris (for example, saliva from a bite).
    Symptoms of this massive and multiple infection include:

    Pale skin.
    Dilated pupils.
    Fluid discharge.
    Loss of hair and missing scalp pieces.
    Vomiting blood
    Because of antibiotic resistance or inefficacy, and extremely fast growth rate of said bacteria, immediate amputation of the wounded limb is usually the most effective method of preventing systemic infection that eventually leads to death. Bites to the neck, head, or trunk are invariably fatal and cannot be treated.
    If the wound is not properly cauterized, cleaned, and/or wrapped, however, amputation may not be enough to stop the lethal infection without medicine, and even then, survival rates are not easily estimated, as only one person (in each format) is known to have survived an amputation of an infected limb.

    Taken straight from the Walking Dead wikia:

  • edited November 2013

    I have to desagree, a person who just suddenly dies with a hearth attack or any other sudden cause, even if he is in a house where no many bacteria live, just after dying and reanimating his bite is already deadly. There is no way he had the necessary time to catch a bacterial infection. And the bacteria don´t suddenly appear out of nowhere, there is no way you can catch a bacteria in every enviroment like in a house or in an isolated place.

    This already exists in nature, there are certain animals whose bite is deadly because they have bacteria in their saliva, like rats or the Komodo dragon. But they don´t have those bacteria per se, they aren´t born with that. That is the result of their respective diets. If you have a rat or even a komodo dragon in your house and you feed them with healthy food they won´t have any bacteria infection nor their bites will be contagious. So that the every recently made walkers already has a deadly bite is not so easy to explain I am afraid, is very farfetched that all of them had the necessary time and opportunity (like being in an adequate enviroment) to catch it, unless as I said they had that bacterial infection before they died, but then again why the normal person's bite is not deadly?

    I have read your post, "the unsanitary nature of their mouths due to diet and decomposition", exactly the same case as with the Komodo dragon and the rat. But then again that doesn´t explain that even the recently made walkers´ bite is deadly just after reanimating. If you believe that´s plausible that´s ok, but for me it isn't. Even in open air spaces there is no way to be infected by any bacteria just in mere seconds, you develop that after descomposing and feeding, for that you need time.

  • Well, you can choose to spare the arm. Even still, whatever caused the infection would still be in the bloodstream unless it was amputated very very quickly.

  • edited November 2013

    I don't think it's any particular bacterium OR virus, and could be a bit of everything. I think walker mouths are just incredibly toxic as part of their (un)nature and an instant breeding ground for the nasty stuff that are already in people's mouths, just super-amplified.

  • It's not clear why getting bitten makes you die, but the bite doesn't necessarily make you "turn". That's the airborne virus that makes you turn after dying from the bite. I would suggest researching other real life virus's that cause the same symptoms, maybe base some theories from that?

  • simple. The virus is dormant while the people are alive, so it can only reanimate people after they die. The bite kills you because the virus isn't dormant in a walker.

  • Yeah they cut it off like michael said but it was already in Lees blood stream for quite some time and he already passed out from it by the time they decided to chop it off so Lee was hopeless either way which sucks really bad I would have loved to have Lee around for at least another season but I get why telltale did it so they could continue the epic story of Clem I can't wait for season two the anticipation is killing me much like im sure it is all of you as well

  • edited November 2013

    Oh well, every community has to have it's stubborn member. IF you dont care what's coming from the wiki then you just have a big tunnel vision. Again dont make it harder then it has to be.

    Also there is not often we have seen a person die and become a zombie right away. The fastest is two characters on the TV show, Shane and some old guy and what happens there does not mean it applies for the game or the comic (both of which i have not played or read for a while). What comes from the wiki is entirely plausible, maybe not for a real life stand point but at least it works as fiction.

    Here is a quote from the creator himself: "A zombie bite kills you because of infection, or blood loss, not because of the zombie "virus."

    Blood loss? Could also make sense, hell how can i argue with the guy who created the whole "franchise". Most of the time when a walker attacks someone the damage they do can be very fierce. One of the times it was not "big" was on Jim when it comes to the TV show but again that walker looked like it had been a walker for a very long time so it pretty had all kinds of bacteria and infections inside it.

    EDIT: If you think about it, the wikia states there are a couple of steps: "The first form of the infection was the transmission of the pathogen from an undead host to a living body via bites and scratches. The second form is already contained within all living people, and merely requires the death of the host to activate the zombie condition."

    What's to say that if you reach the second form just of dying from anything not walker related, it opens up so you can give the first from to others? It's plausible.

  • You've got to wonder how any of these characters are still alive. I mean, isn't there a chance of getting their blood in you when one is killed close to you? What about when you've got an open wound and kill one point-blank? Or if one falls into a water source? These guys are also constantly running around with all this blood on them and on their hands.

  • First of all, you are the stubborn here. I am just stating my opinion, you are the one trying to convince me and getting frustated. And you didn´t refute any of my statesment, just quoted the wikia without giving your explanation.

    Second thing, the wikia is not canon, comics are, and what the author says of course. Stop quoting the wikia like it´s the holy bible.

    Third thing, i have a mind of my own. So even if the creator makes an explanation that explanation can be a good one or a bad one or even a stupid one for me. It will be his explanation and i respect that, but that doesn´t mean it has to make sense to me or that i have to like it.

    And finally i think that i was right, the walkers´s bite isn´t deadly because "the unsanitary nature of their mouths due to diet and decomposition" as you previously stated (quoting from the wikia of course). They infect you with the SAME VIRUS that transform you into a walker. Or at least that´s what the holy wikia says in your last post. And that´s what i have been saying all along (please read my posts), that the pathogen in the walkers´bite that kills you and the one in the air that reanimates you have to be related. I had even said that it should be two different families (or forms) of the same virus. And i think that is what the creator is talking about when his says "a zombie bite kills you because of infection" not some sudden bacterial infection that everybody catches just after reanimating.

    So it´s pretty amusing that you call me stubborn just to give me the reason in the end (not willingly, but still). Thank you anyway, at least now i know that the two pathogens are the same, but two different forms/families.

  • edited November 2013

    You dont care about the wikia which has information about what the creator has stated, information from all the comics, the show, the games, all the extra material, interviews, official books and is thoroughly looked through before being put up.. Yes you are the stubborn one. Of course you can have a different opinion, but there is so much information out there that you don't even care about. Stop living in the past saying "a wika can't be trusted", that was a long time ago and it's gotten much better since. So give yourself some space.

    For that matter, how was i frustrated? I gave my opinion several times but you have such a tunnel-vision about what you think is right, no sense in continuing this, i'm out, you dont care to discuss anything other then what you think is right as you just put down every thing i gave to you in favor of your own opinion.

    Now don't take this as i'm calling you stupid or anything, it just seems that we two have nothing more to talk about and i really think you need to stop having that tunnel-vision of yours and learn to open up to the info that's given to you, instead of shutting it down.

    What ever the case, i'm done. This conversation is leading nowhere so you don't even have to reply as i wont continue this, have a nice day sir!

  • What is so epic about this one?

  • edited November 2013

    I don´t have "a tunnel-vision about what I think is right," I was right all-along, in your last post you actually gave me the reason stating that it wasn´t a sudden catched bacterial infection, so i was right, wasn´t I? Everybody can read the entire discussion and see that i was right, even you can if you were honest with yourself but i think you have too much pride for that.

    You didn´t refute any of my statements.

    I said that "the unsanitary nature of their mouths due to diet and decomposition" didn´t make sense in the cases of recently made walkers because they didn´t have the necessary time to feed or being discomposed. Wasn´t I right? You didn´t refute this.

    I said that the pathogen in the walkers´bite that kills you and the virus in the air that reanimates you had to be related. Wasn´t I right? You didn´t refute this (even the wikia says the same in one of your posts, thank you, and you can´t contradict the wikia it seems)

    You didn´t refute any of my arguments, you only talk about me, making statements "ad hominen". When you discuss with someone you have to learn to talk about his arguments not about his persona, that automatically disqualifies you and give the impression that you don´t have any valid points of your own to make and that you have to resort to the easy solution of talking about the other person.

  • edited November 2013

    It seems like Robert Kirkman's model (which the game and tv show adapt) for the zombie closely resembles the Max Brooks model. In the Brooks model, the reason there are zombies is because of a unknown and incurable virus he calls Solanum if i remember right. Solanum is transferable in much the same way that someone might get HIV/AIDS, and in his world, the zombie's main motivation is to transfer this virus. So when they bite or scratch you to point of blood being drawn, then you will turn into a zombie.

    Kirkmans zombie model differs in that it seems instead of a virus, zombification in his world is the result of some kind of pathogen or fungus. So the zombie doesn't pass a zombie virus to directly you in his world, because you're already infected with the zombie virus. What im guessing happens is if you get bitten by a zombie, you die in much the same way that a Komodo Dragon kills its prey - which is a very very dirty mouth.. LOL. You really die of some kind of sepsis or staph infection, then turn into a zombie after your dead.

    takes off professor hat, kicks the door, and leaves while brandishing devil horns

  • edited November 2013

    If you can´t mantain a proper, civilised discussion I don´t think a forum is a proper place for you. Stop embarrasing yourself

This discussion has been closed.