Another half-assed "Your choices matter, really!" game from Telltale.

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  • That was when she was within striking distance of a walker. In this case, she had already cleared the room and know that Christa and Omid are right next door. Walking 10 ft from your gun to retrieve something in a room you know is safe seems like a pretty reasonable thing to do. Her mistake here was not going for her gun when the girl came in, but I guess she was just caught off guard and panicked. It happens. I forgive her.

    Now the events before his death also get a lot of crap like 'Why wouldn't Clem bring her gun into the stall?' Well my response is wh

  • Did you read what I said after that as a good reason why she wouldn't need it? IF a walker came in her hiding probably would have worked until omid came, though no one suspected another survivor and she probably felt even more secure knowing Omid and Christa were next door so she wouldn't feel as big of an urge to bring her gun with her for a roughly 5-15 second adventure into a stall.

    Now the events before his death also get a lot of crap like 'Why wouldn't Clem bring her gun into the stall?' Well my response is wh

  • They believe she won't turn because she went through so much effort. If it was a walker bite, she would have no need to sneak in for medical equipment or to kill the walker that got in the shed, she would just not do it, because she'd know she'll die. And when they're in the house, Luke nor Nick are completely convinced it's not a walker bite. You can see Luke's worried, and Carlos relieves him by proving it's not a walker bite. They didn't tend to the wound for the reason Carlos made clear; "I'm not wasting resources on a lurker bite.", which is agreeably a cruel, yet fair judgement to make.

    Personally, I think the writer has done a superb job, and a lot of people haven't really evaluated their arguments before they say them for these plotholes, as pretty much all of them I've seen have been resolved and proven wrong.

    dlux_ posted: »

    On leaving the shed. She quite literally had no choice if she would have stayed she would have died. What's my reasoning? Well for o

  • They believe she won't turn because she went through so much effort.

    If Clementine tending to her own wound "proved" to them that she wasn't bitten by a walker, then her initial begging and pleading for medical treatment so she could be on her way should've already proven it to them.

    Somebody who begs and pleads for medical assistance will also tend to their own wound if they can.

    Personally, I think the writer has done a superb job, and a lot of people haven't really evaluated their arguments before they say them for these plotholes, as pretty much all of them I've seen have been resolved and proven wrong.

    Naw, the writer has done a terrible job. Those trying to close these blatant plotholes need to give it more effort.

    They believe she won't turn because she went through so much effort. If it was a walker bite, she would have no need to sneak in for

  • How'd they do such a bad Job when almost everyone can't tell a difference between the writing in season 1 and the writing in all that remains???

    dlux_ posted: »

    They believe she won't turn because she went through so much effort. If Clementine tending to her own wound "proved" to them

  • Contrary to your claim, there are many people that have noticed that the writing is clearly inferior to that of the first season. The writing is not only inferior, it is very poor.

    Just read the forums here or elsewhere and feel enlightend.

    Carley123 posted: »

    How'd they do such a bad Job when almost everyone can't tell a difference between the writing in season 1 and the writing in all that remains???

  • The writing is overall similar. Stuff is always happening. You have the mean character, nice character. A dad who is defensive of his daughter. And a bad ass character. At the starting it's calm then someone dies you get lost. Find a companion. Expect in season 2 they went more into detail with getting lost and the characters are even more crazy. So I have no idea why it's worse..

    dlux_ posted: »

    Contrary to your claim, there are many people that have noticed that the writing is clearly inferior to that of the first season. The writing is not only inferior, it is very poor. Just read the forums here or elsewhere and feel enlightend.

  • I disagree with you on so many levels. I'm not even gonna bother trying to counter most of your complaints because others have done a better job but I will say that "zombies crawling on their stomachs are stupid" is grasping at straws. Have you read the comics ? Zombies have done for more then crawl to get tasty human meat. However for your complaints that aren't canonically invalid, your allowed to have your opinion I guess, no matter how much I disagree and argue with you I doubt I'd change your mind.

  • edited December 2013

    As someone who really enjoyed the first episode for what it was, the criticisms this guy makes in the OP are completely valid. The puzzle aspects of this game are left with so much room to expand on; you would think by playing as a ten year old girl you would have to rely on strategy and utilising your environment, but there was was another "kicking the zombie away while reaching for an item" -sequence, that destroyed the illusion of being vulnerable that the episode started off with. Having different paths to explore that change the difficulty of reaching your goal or punish the player, is good level design because it makes you think about your environment, like you would be doing in a zombie apocalypse. If the player is challenged to search their environment, or use hints in dialogue to solve a puzzle, they become more immersed and it feels less like you're being spoon-fed.

    It feels like telltale considered the possibility of throwing in content that wouldn't streamline you to your objective and just assumed the player would be confused by it and too frustrated to continue playing.

    There is room to be more ambitious with level design, difficulty and puzzles; cramped spaces and invisible walls guiding you in a single direction are evidence of this. Stop trying to close discussion on the points expressed in the OP.

  • edited December 2013

    Every one of the episodes was like that. Episode 1: getting the pills for Larry. Episode 2: finding out what the St.Johns were hiding. Episode 3: getting the train to work/ get to Savannah. Episode 4: get the stuff from Crawford. Episode 5: get Clem back. 400 Days: Vince: get off the bus. Wyatt: trying to save Bennett. Russel: attack Walt. Bonnie: get away from Roman's group. Shel: deciding on whether or not to kill stephanie or leave. Season 2: episode one: Get the medical supplies.

    GreenFX posted: »

    When you had no choice but to complete one objective the entire game, I don't see how things can be affected in later episodes.

  • It's not the fact that she has tended to her own wound that proves it, it's the effort she goes through in order to tend it. It's like, finally starting a book you loaned from a library that has to be returned in about 15 mins (bad example, I know, but you get the idea :P), there's no point in attempting it, because you'll have to return it before you'll get anywhere near finishing it anyway. Same with Clementine, if it was a walker bite, there'd be no point in going through the effort to retrieve medical equipment, because with or without it, she'd turn regardless.

    I full well agree that the writing is not as good as Season 1, but keeping in mind this is just the first episode of a five-episode season, I still think that as aforementioned, the writer has done a superb job in keeping Clem and creating an interesting new group I'm looking forward to getting to know.

    dlux_ posted: »

    They believe she won't turn because she went through so much effort. If Clementine tending to her own wound "proved" to them

  • Not only that, but later, Carlos says it's definitely not a walker bite because she'd have a fever. It came afterwards, yes, but if she'd had a fever, she wouldn't have seemed too well in the shed.

    It's not the fact that she has tended to her own wound that proves it, it's the effort she goes through in order to tend it. It's li

  • 4/10. Implies that stuff sucked about the first season and then bought into the second one. A good attempt though.

  • edited December 2013

    I don't understand this. Your choices do matter in the game, just they don't change the whole story. That's how it's supposed to be, you have a limited ability to make decisions at important parts of the story, like sparing someone's life, helping others or not, being selfish or not etc. You have the ability to shape your character's personality decide what is right or wrong for them, ofcourse you can't change the entire plot with your every decision, that is not how role playing games work, and not to mention it'd would make it almost impossible for developers to do that, there'd be nearly unlimited ways for the story to go if you could affect everything with every choice you make.
    Somethings cannot be changed for the sake of the story, you cannot influence certain events, for example I was pretty upset when I couldn't prevent Carley's death, but that's just how it is, that's life for you. It happened, it sucked, but there I was, left with a choice: Could I forgive Lilly for what she had done, or not? That is the things you can change, that's where your choices matter in the game.
    About gameplay length, I can understand that, it's too short and simple in most cases, I would like to be able to explore more, use different approaches for doing puzzle-like scenes. I would love to look around a bit more before immediately finding what I'm looking for.

  • edited December 2013

    I think you're confusing this with Mass Effect 3. We all remember what happened in Mass Effect 3, right? Let's not do that again.

  • edited December 2013

    It's not the fact that she has tended to her own wound that proves it, it's the effort she goes through in order to tend it.

    Clementine would have almost certainly died from that wound. The wound was obviously deadly, i.e. if it is not cleaned, disinfected and stitched up very soon then the infection would spread and kill her. Some hydrogen peroxide and a few bandages would most likely not help anymore at this point, you would need heavy duty antibiotics to cure the blood poisoning and stop the infection. When they stuck Clem in the shed (until morning; 12 - 14 hours) it was a death sentence, I think we can all agree upon this fact. Any human being with a survival instinct would do anything to clean, disinfect and and stitch it.

    Anybody who is not a complete moron knew that the wound was deadly, sticking Clem in the shed until morning was a death sentence and also have known that a person will do anything to circumvent their apparent death sentence. What makes the group think that somebody who is obviously convinced that it is not a walker bite, and pleads for medical assistance, not go through the effort to heal a deadly wound to save her own life? I have only one answer to fill this plothole, the docotor and the rest of the group are complete and utter morons. Only problem with this theory is that they don't seem to be complete and utter morons. At this point I would like to blame it on the uninspired writing that has not been thought out well, but that only enrages some of the fans, who want to believe that everything is perfect and everything makes sense.

    if it was a walker bite, there'd be no point in going through the effort to retrieve medical equipment, because with or without it, she'd turn regardless.

    If it was a walker bite, then there would be no reason for her to beg and plead for medical assistance either. People who have been bitten know that they are doomed.

    It's not the fact that she has tended to her own wound that proves it, it's the effort she goes through in order to tend it. It's li

  • Then why did they want to stick her in the shed until morning (12 - 14 hours) to see if the fever sets in, if the doctor knew that the fever would start in an hour, if Clem was actually bitten?

    No, it doesn't make any sense.

    Rob_K posted: »

    Not only that, but later, Carlos says it's definitely not a walker bite because she'd have a fever. It came afterwards, yes, but if she'd had a fever, she wouldn't have seemed too well in the shed.

  • So you're saying that it is impossible for sequels to books, games or even movies to have bad writing and a bad plot?

    Not really, this happens all the time.

    Carley123 posted: »

    The writing is overall similar. Stuff is always happening. You have the mean character, nice character. A dad who is defensive of hi

  • Because Carlos didn't want to help her. Come on man. It's not that complicated of a story to follow.

    dlux_ posted: »

    Then why did they want to stick her in the shed until morning (12 - 14 hours) to see if the fever sets in, if the doctor knew that the fever would start in an hour, if Clem was actually bitten? No, it doesn't make any sense.

  • What makes the group think that somebody who is obviously convinced that it is not a walker bite, and pleads for medical assistance, not go through the effort to heal a deadly wound to save her own life? I have only one answer to fill this plothole, the docotor and the rest of the group are complete and utter morons.

    Or perhaps they didn't feel like having another mouth to feed and a burden to carry around.

    dlux_ posted: »

    It's not the fact that she has tended to her own wound that proves it, it's the effort she goes through in order to tend it.

  • Then don't play it.

  • AKA; Hipsters

    jdubs82 posted: »

    People "rise" anytime anything is popular. I don't think Telltale (or anyone who has ever made anything) takes the auto-contrarian crowd seriously.

  • edited December 2013

    "If it was a walker bite, then there would be no reason for her to beg and plead for medical assistance either." Some people could, at first, be in denial at being bitten. Take Kenny for example in Season One. We knew there was no way to stop the infection on Duck, but Kenny was in denial, certain that it could be stopped, while we knew full well that wasn't going to happen. The survivors could easily believe that she was in that possible 'in denial' state, and that she was not to be completely trusted. Once she was in the shed, it would give time to let the fact sink in that she was doomed, but yet, she was still relentless to get it cleaned, showing evidence that she is probably telling the truth.

    As for the fact of being put in the shed being a death sentence, that is certainly an undeniable fact - and all the more reason she needs to get medicinal help. But you can't expect to find top-notch medicinal equipment in a medium-level security place of survivors. She made do with what she could get, and though it may not have completely stopped it, it would certainly have done well and at least delayed death for longer.

    As for Carlos, he has a point about waiting, that's the only sure fire way to tell whether it's a walker bite or not. In fact, when you're in the survivor house, you can hear the survivors discussing Clem's fate. If they decided they didn't want to take care of her, they could have left her in the shed for a week to ensure she would have died. Maybe Luke could have sneaked medicinal equipment to you. There's no definite way to know what would have happened had Clem stayed put.

    All of that said, I have to admit, it was a death sentence going in that shed, and leaving her that long in the shed would have killed her. That is a plothole, but a minor one at that, and it nowhere near condemns the whole episode. I never even thought of it that way until you brought it up. Every single other plothole I've seen so far has been resolved, and this one may still have an answer I don't have. What annoys me is a lot of people are pointing out single, and considerably minor plotholes, then judging the whole episode based on it. It's like a film critic finding a little bit in the film they can't wrap their head around, and giving the film a 1/10 solely because of it. I'm not saying these people's arguments are insignificant by any standard, but some are making a bigger deal about it than they really should be.

    dlux_ posted: »

    It's not the fact that she has tended to her own wound that proves it, it's the effort she goes through in order to tend it.

  • The problem with such an episodic, budget game made by a small company is that there are going to be some limits one would see in the game. Expecting a game where the game ventures off into a completely different scenario would be too expensive and time consuming for Telltale to produce. Imagine having the Doug or the gal (forgot her name) surviving throughout the season. That would cost a lot to make unique scenarios for, as well as having the actors record the lines.

    Since season 1 did so well, season 2 might have gotten a bigger budget and the choices one made in saving Nick or the old guy might be less linear than saving Doug or the reporter in season 1.

    Other than that, the TT games has went a long way since Tales of Monkey Island; there is no more being confine to one area in an entire season and the characters are no longer generic-looking. These were very prominent in the TT games where you are stuck in one location in one season (Sam and Max) or meeting different people, but with the same models (TOMI)

  • edited December 2013
    1. Why did Carlos not want to help Clementine?
    2. Why does Carlos eventually change his mind?
    3. Why did Carlos not care if Clem dies of her infected wound?
    4. Why does everybody follow what Carlos says like mindless drones even if it means that Clementine will die of her infected wound?
    5. Why does the group refuse to help a little girl who pleads for medical assistance and is obviously convinced that her wound is not walker bite?
    6. Why does the group have no problem in sentencing Clementine to death by forcing her to stay in the shed until morning (12-14 hours) so that her wound cannot be healed by simpler means (cleaning, disinfecting and stitching) anymore?
    7. Why does the group offer to only help her in the morning (in 12-14 hours) although it is quite obvious that by that time the infection would spread very likely causing a sepsis which can only be healed with very strong antibiotics and proper medical equipment and attention?
    8. Why does the group think that Clementine has no survival instinct and will not go through the effort of saving her own life after she begged and pleaded for medical assistance and is obviously convinced that she will not turn?
    9. Why does the group think that Clementine is a zombie in disguise who just wants to bite them and are therfore scared shitless of her?
    10. Why does the group send Clementine to the shed although the fever (that causes you to turn) has not set in yet, which means she can't bite and zombify anybody?
    11. Why does the group want to shove Clementine into the shed until morning (12-14 hours), although Carlos and the rest of the group knows that if Clementine was actually bitten, then the fever (which sets in if you are going to turn) would set in after only maybe an hour?
    12. Why does the group free Clementine from the shed after about and hour, because the fever did not set in, although they originally planned to stick her in the shed until morning?

    You claim to have all the answers, so why don't you enlighten us with your wisdom instead of dropping a one-liner. By the way, "Because they are just complete and utter morons" is not an answer.

    Sejborg posted: »

    Because Carlos didn't want to help her. Come on man. It's not that complicated of a story to follow.

  • Then they woudn't have let her in and given her food.

    Sejborg posted: »

    What makes the group think that somebody who is obviously convinced that it is not a walker bite, and pleads for medical assistance,

  • Some people could, at first, be in denial at being bitten.

    If Clementine was in denial about being bitten, then she would have still went through with the "effort", as you like to put it, of stealing supplies to tend to her wound.

    All of that said, I have to admit, it was a death sentence going in that shed, and leaving her that long in the shed would have killed her. That is a plothole, but a minor one at that, and it nowhere near condemns the whole episode.

    I think it is a pretty major plothole, because it portrays the characters as complete morons and mindless drones.

    There are also other unbelievable situations that bug me, not to mention that the characters feel underdeveloped. I never had this feeling in season one. But whatever, the damage is done, hopefully the other episodes are great so that I can forget the first episode.

    "If it was a walker bite, then there would be no reason for her to beg and plead for medical assistance either." Some people could,

  • I think everyone just needs to give it time and let it blossom. That's where it could develop into a truly amazing experience. :)

    dlux_ posted: »

    Some people could, at first, be in denial at being bitten. If Clementine was in denial about being bitten, then she would ha

  • They did that afer she had killed a zombie, and taken care of her arm. At that moment they clearly realised that she would be able to carry her own weight.

    dlux_ posted: »

    Then they woudn't have let her in and given her food.

  • Clem panicked. Despite being taught by Lee, she's still only nine at this point. Yes, she should have jumped for the gun first, but got worried, and 'Fight or Flight' kicked in. Clearly, her reaction was 'Flight'.

    dlux_ posted: »

    What about the fact that Clementine doesn't run for her gun as the scavenger slooooowly enters the bathroom? Clementine was like one

  • edited December 2013

    You are allowed to think for your self you know.

    1. Because then he would have yet another mouth to feed and Clem might influence Sarah in a way he don't want.
    2. He is left with no choice since the rest of the group changes their mind.
    3. Why should he care? He don't know her.
    4. They don't. Pete and Luke are not happy with the decision. Likewise with Alvin.
    5. It's not a hivemind. Some of them want her gone others don't. Didn't you play the episode?
    6. Some of them did have a problem with this. Didn't you play the episode?
    7. Because they didn't feel like wasting resources on some random girl.
    8. Because you wouldn't assume a tiny girl has well evolved survival skills.
    9. Because she has a bleeding bite mark on her arm. Didn't you pay attention at all?
    10. Because they don't want her among themselves if she should turn so they lock her someplace where they can keep her contained. Common sense.
    11. They don't know when she was bitten
    12. They held a house meeting, where they discussed what to do with Clementine. Obviously the plan was altered.

    Really you should try and pay more attention. You act like a person that have expereinced '2001: A Space Odyssey' for the first time.

    dlux_ posted: »

    * Why did Carlos not want to help Clementine? * Why does Carlos eventually change his mind? * Why did Carlos not care if Clem dies

  • Okay GreenFX. Why don't you write a story and I'll judge it myself. I'll give you criticism just like you did TellTale. It only seems fair.

    GreenFX posted: »

    Looks like Telltale are really emulating the production of the TV series! I have no idea what's going on with the writing, but every

  • edited December 2013

    What about the fact that Clementine doesn't run for her gun as the scavenger slooooowly enters the bathroom? Clementine was like one or two meters away from her gun, much closer to it than the scavenger.

    Lying for your cause? It was more than two meters. And Clem and the scavenger were both about the same distance from the gun (yes Clem probably a little closer). How do you know the scavanger isn't armed herself? Good idea running in front of the scavenger and MAYBE getting to your gun before the scavenger MAYBE could shoot you or hold you at gunpoint at least. Hiding as first instinct isn't wrong.

    Alt text

    If Clem had time to think, she could get the idea that her stuff on the sink is giving her presence away anyway, but hiding on first instinct is very plausible.

    dlux_ posted: »

    What about the fact that Clementine doesn't run for her gun as the scavenger slooooowly enters the bathroom? Clementine was like one

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