• I hope if it is her we aren't forced to be biased against her. I don't forgive her for what she did but I'd leave it in the past if she's changed. Like other characters did for Lee

    • I wont :) i hate her so much :D i wish she didnt come back and we saw her as a walker on the road ;) did i mention how much i hate lilly?

      • Because she did the same thing as Lee, I know :P

        • Two wrongs don't make a right. Lee had a reason for what he did and he killed someone in a fight by accident and was remorseful, Lilly killed an innocent person that was caring and kind in cold blood for no reason and felt no remorse. Whose action is worse?

          • Actually, Lee doesn't really seem to feel much remorse for killing the guy. When Clem asks Lee if the guy he killed was bad, Lee rather confidently states "Yes he was." Later on, he really only expresses regret for mistreating his wife, not killing her lover.

            Still, I agree that killing someone in a heated altercation after finding him in bed with your wife isn't quite as bad as coldly shooting someone in the face after she responded to your repeatedly accusations of betrayal with a bit of sass. Lee has anger issues. Lilly is psychologically unstable. And a bitch.

            • You may have a point. But one thing I know for sure, Lee did kill his wife's lover by accident, I don't think he intended to kill him whereas Lilly purposely killed someone that's done nothing but help the group survive.

              • Agreed if it's Carley. Doug in my playthrough was an accident though

                • But in Doug's version, she tried to kill a frightened teenager with no proof.

                  • It was wrong. Yes it was a very horrible mistake. Trust me I hated her for it. I like Doug and Carley lots. I think she can come back though. The theme of Season 4 of the show is whether you can come back from the things you've done. I know this is the game but the point stands. I think for Lilly this was a one off. She'll probably regret it her entire life but I think she can at least try to redeem herself. If she lets herself fall even further? I'll be disappointed and it'll make her the enemy of my Clem. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt for now if she ever comes back

                    • I wouldn't use the show as an example because they messed up a lot plus the things in there makes no sense but I do get the point you're trying to make but it doesn't fit with Lilly. Lilly was acting like a crazed tyrant that committed a dastardly crime showing no regret and then committed another dastardly crime showing no regret yet again, I wouldn't say it's one off considering what she does after the rash choices she makes. I'll be pissed if Clem becomes her friend because that would be a stab in the back to Lee, Carley/Doug, Duck, Ben, Katjaa & Kenny, after all Lilly has done not only to Clem but to others aswell, that makes her an enemy.

                      • I'd agree but the message is across all versions of the series. I only recall Lilly doing one badthing, what else was there? :o I hope there's the choice for both groups of fans. We should be able to let it go or never forgive her. I'd probably make sure she knows my Clem hasn't forgotten it but forgive her. If she does anything of the sort again though... My Lee was on her sideso hopefully

                        • But it depends on what that person did and from what I've seen on the show, I doubt they did anything to what Lee did. She killed an innocent person, took advantage of her group & left them for dead, putting other people in danger with her decisions as well as other things that makes her a selfish bitch, that's more than one bad thing I would say. You were on her side but that didn't stop her from doing half the shit that I've mentioned. I'd hope there's no option to forgive her because that would mean Clem never cared about Lee, Ben, Kenny and his family and that would be out of Clem's character.

                          • You should hope there's options for fans to forgive her or not. This doesn't mean they're betraying the others. My Lee was good with Lilly

                            • Yes I know you were good to her but like I said, that didn't stop her from doing the treacherous things that makes her hateable. In Clems perspective, a man that took care of you(Lee) and a family that treated you like one of their won(Kenny's family) were left for dead by a psychotic woman who also left you, an 8 year old girl for dead and also happened to kill a kind woman(Carley) that looked out for you or attempted to murder a friend(Ben), you'd be stabbing them in the back by forgiving a heartless woman that felt no guilt for the pain she inflicted not just on you but the other people that you cared about. That would be like Rick Grimes forgiving The Governor or Maggie Greene forgiving Negan.

                              • You're assuming again. You don't know what she felt over the killing. The Governor sadistically tortured people. Negan sadistically killed someone in front of everyone for the sake of demoralizing them. Lilly did neither thing. If you want to throw in everyone who ever killed someone together, by all means do so. I prefer to keep an open mind. If Lee taught players anything it's that you can come back from things

                        • I felt sorry for Lilly. I even let her back on the RV, I knew she had to be punished and I was probably going to kick her out of the group unless she had REAL evidence it was Carley (at this point I'd narrowed it down so it HAD to be Ben, I had no doubt even before Kenny stopped the RV, but I wasn't gonna let him be kicked out by the road in the middle of the night, and I let Lilly back on because I knew all the noise would draw walkers. No matter what she did, I wasn't leaving a woman by the side of the road to die.
                          I would probably have sent her off down the road, I wanted to kill her but I didn't want Clem to have anymore shit that day. Yeah that turned out well.
                          When she took off with the RV though, leaving us stranded (I hadn't figured the train out yet) I figured fuck her though, I mean fine, she hated Kenny, didn't trust Lee, but she left two kids out there with no food or shelter.
                          I understand why, she must have figured we were going to kill her, but she could've got Clementine killed and that dog don't hunt with Lee, his whole, indeed only remaining purpose at that point was to keep Clem alive, and Lilly took a giant shit on it.
                          I'd like to see her back story wise like I've said on another thread, but my Clem wouldn't feel safe around her if the shit hit the fan unless she's gone through a change as dramatic as Brian Blake (the other way round though, can you imagine Lilly after 2 years at Governor level of crazy? lol)

                  • Wrong: She narrowed it down to Ben (which she turns out to be right) and was using rational logic; Kenny and Katjaa wouldn't do it, especially since Kenny argue about moving away and she knows his family isn't one to be negotiating with bandits. Doug wouldn't do such a thing unless a fellow group member was in danger. Ben was the only one who made logical sense. She handled the situation poorly, which ended with Doug dead, but she knew who she was accusing.

                    • But at that point, she was pointing fingers and considered her word of mouth as evidence. She had no proof yet already decided Ben deserved a death penalty.

            • I'd say it's worse what Lee did. Now I know both things are wrong, but Lee killing the guy in blind rage for sleeping with hiswife (Dick move from the guy but not deserving of murder) is less of a legit reason than trying to kill the traitor who lostthe group their home, medicine, food and lead to the biting of Duck. Holding a gun probably makes it even more tempting. Lee could've done the same in the wife situation if he'd held a gun

              • How is killing a guy in a fight by accident more worse than killing an innocent person in cold blood on purpose?

                • I don't mean either killing is better. Both are horrible. I mean wanting to kill some traitor who cost you your home, medcine, food and Duck is more justifiable than killing a guy in anger over sleeping with your wife. Neither crime is worse but I can understand the reasoning to one is better

                  • But she had no proof other than her own word on who the traitor is. In Doug's play-through, she tried to kill this so called traitor without any evidence and her reckless action cost the life of someone else and in Carley's play-through, that was just cold blooded murder, it had nothing to do with Carley being accused, she murdered Carley because she just didn't like her. There's no justifying that.

                    • Exactly. She held the power ofa gun in her hands and used it. It isn't right but it happens to many decent people through stress. I won't forgive her for it but afterher dad, Kenny in her face, bandits and losing everything at the Motor Inn I'll be willing to let it go somewhat if she shows any remorse if she returns. Hopefully it haunts her forever. It's punishment enough to me. Worse than killing her yet giving her a chance to redeem herself

                      • Idk who feels the need to thumbs down my comments. This is called an opinion. I'm not calling anyone out for expressing a different one. Love to therating system ;3

                      • She's not the only character that suffered traumatic experiences in The Walking Dead franchise and if other characters refrain themselves from pulling the same stunts Lilly has done then what is her excuse? If you read The Governor's back story, you'll see that he went through the same stuff, would you use stress as his excuse for his psychotic behavior or The Stranger if I may add? The way she killed someone in her own, that has done nothing to get treated the way they did and tried justifying it afterwards and showing any sign of guilt for any action she has done shows she has no morals. If she tries redeeming herself then that would be out of character for her.

                        • People are affected differently. You never know what someone's breaking point is. I feel sympathy for the Gov and the Stranger yes. I won't compare Lilly to them though because of how far gone they are. It wouldn't be out of character at all. Anyone can try to redeem themselves

                          • The Gov was a disturbed man that murdered innocent people and the Stranger was twisted, I feel nothing for them. One thing Lilly has in common with The Governor is that they both strive for power and one thing she has in common with The Stranger is that they both refuse to accept any responsibility for their actions or acknowledge the fault they made that led to their downfall, grief & loss. If there was any shred of a good person in either of those three then they wouldn't have done what they did, they should not have gone down that path that's why redemption is out of the question for her because she had no morals, you have to be an evil person or messed up or both to do what they did.

                            • I don't know why you don't feel anything for the Stranger when it was the group we played with who made him what he is. We don't even have any idea if Lilly accepted responsibility for her actions because we haven't seen her again yet. She doesn't seem to be power hungry, she said it. No one else stepped up she took responsibility. She even tells Lee to hand out the rations to show how much she hates her job. I hate crime too but I'd look for any shred of goodness in someone. What you say means Lee should've let the man go too then. Instead he carried on and killed him. I suppose Lee lacks morals now too and can never come back from it

                              • I only feel sorry for The Strangers family because they had a moron of a Husband/Father, The Stranger brought the pain on himself, first he lost his son then he was stupid to leave his supplies unguarded and if that's not bad enough, he left the door open and the keys in the ignition, he forgot to put a "Free Supplies" sign because somehow he had it in his mind that he and his family were the only survivors out in the woods. And instead of accepting the fact that his stupidity is his downfall, he blamed others just like Lilly blamed all her actions on this traitor, in the time she was shouting her head off, not once did she take any responsibility. How do we know others never wanted to be a leader? She did nothing in Episode 1 yet in Episode 2 she was running things with her prick of a dad providing back up, when others disagree with her and voice their opinions, she yells her head off as if her opinion mattered as seen in Episode 2 + 3, you don't agree with her, she's a bitch you and she was determined to keep everyone at that motel even if they wanted to leave, wouldn't you say that's power hungry. From what I've saw, she threw a tantrum because you wouldn't leave people to die and tells you to hand out the food then later on she'll criticizes you for not giving any to her dad even though she gave you the authority to give it to anyone. If she hates her job, why doesn't she give it to anyone else but that would mean her dad wouldn't get any as Mark hinted she was giving him extra, that's another bad thing, cheating on the lottery. What man are you talking about? The Senator because all we know is that Lee got in a fight with him and killed him by accident, who knows, the man could've hit him first. Lilly lacked the morals because the person she was harassing never did anything to her or wronged her in anyway then she pulls out a gun with the intention of taking the persons life away.

                                • If you lost a kid in the woods you wouldn't even think aboutthe supplies in your car. I'm not saying he was exactly smart but itdoesn't matter next to finding his kid. I know the others didn't want to be leader because Lilly says so in Ep2. She doesn't criticize you for not giving Larry any food. She can't give her job away because no one else wants it and she's obviously the best with survival skills right there

                                  • You would if you had a wife and daughter that needed the supplies for survival, I would maybe understand if it was him alone, it doesn't take forever to lock your car. If I recall correctly, she only said that about ration handing and not the leadership position. She criticizes for not giving her dickhead of a dad any food if you don't kiss her ass, she becomes an insensitive bitch. She showed nothing that demonstrates her survival, she mostly sits on her ass doing nothing and relies on others, notice in the three episodes we've seen her, we've not witnessed her killing a zombie.

                                    • Alright. Try it then. Lose your kid in a forest and see how much else you can focus on. Not everyone is a hardcore survivalist. Lilly organizes the rations, it's said she uses her survival training from the Air Force to teach them to shoot, look for supplies, scout etc. She's arguably the best to keep on watch besides Carley

                                      • Hey, I understand that The Stranger was going through a lot but come on, he could've at least told his wife to do it, he could've at least do 2/3 things, take the keys and slam the door, it just takes a couple of seconds to secure your car and when you have a wife and daughter, you need to those things especially in the apocalypse. I agree that not everyone is a hardcore survivalist but not everyone is that stupid when they survived the first three months. Lilly organizes the rations but Mark indicated in the beginning of episode 2 that she skims rations for her dad so she may likely been cheating on the suppose lottery she invented as Larry showed no signs of weakness. Again, how do we know she taught them how to shoot, Lee said to Danny that she keeps them on a training schedule when he could've simply said that she taught them. We don't know what role she had at the Air Force that makes her a survivalist, from what I've read on TWD Wikia, she worked at the Desk. In all 3 episodes, we've not once witness her look for supplies but instead, we see her sitting around, she even sent a guy with a bullet wound(Kenny) for supply search. And she's a terrible Watch, where was she when Zombie Teacher/Travis attacked Katjaa then Lee? when she had a sniper rifle, heck, if an idiot like Ben can sneak into her room and steal her supplies, how useful is she, especially as a leader.

                                        • I wouldn't be against giving the guy with the condition extra food. Working in Air Force bases kind of means you learn certain things, even if you aren't constantly near weapons. You're saying she was terrible on watch for missing one thing yet being ready to shoot whatever was in the trees earlier in the day? You know, the noise no others even heard?

                                          • I wouldn't be against giving the guy with the condition extra food.

                                            Well, it was a heart condition. I doubt sneaking the guy with the bad heart extra cheese crackers and beef jerky is really the way to go there. (And yeah, I know there's an apple but fuck that, that's Clementine's).

                                            I do agree that Lilly was fairly useful while she was on watch and for her military experience. She was piss-poor at the actual "managing people" aspect of being a leader but I think she did a good job preparing them for when the shit hits the fan. I think we can spare her some credit there.

                                            • True but it means he'd need the extra food too right? Even if it isn't the best food for him I suppose ;/ I feel mean now, I give Clem and Duck the crackers and cheese or beef jerky because it seems more wholesome for them. I never considered the apple being better. I suppose the group could be better without one leader. Say Lee in charge of any kind of social management, Lilly survival, etc. Groups with only one leader seem to mess up kind of

                                          • It isn't exactly fair to the others, she set up a system, expects others to agree with it yet she doesn't follow them especially when there are others that need it. He has a bad heart, I don't think little portions of snacks will prevent that dickhead having a heart attack every time he goes off. And that one thing was close to her, inside her own camp and her fellow group members were in danger yet she's nowhere to be seen, you would think that she would attempt to shoot that zombie when her dad goes over to kill it with an axe, putting himself at risk, you're saying she was a good watch because she was alert at what's coming out of the trees?

                                            • True she messed up there. There isn't any excuse other than not knowing people turn yet

                                            • The whole Lilly sneaking Larry food thing is all still speculation from Mark. And he didn't even say that he thought that was what's going on, only that he wouldn't be surprised if it were.

                                              There wasn't too much Lilly could have done with the zombie that attacked Lee. It was right on top of him for a lot of that. Trying to shoot at something with a rifle when it's in a frantic struggle with a person you don't want to hurt would be way too risky. Even when Carley shoots it with her handgun, she needs to go up to it and put the gun right at its head to avoid accidentally hitting Lee.

                                              And yeah, Lilly was a good watch for being alert to what's coming out of the trees because that's what the watch is supposed to do: look out for external threats. No one was expecting a walker to just randomly pop up in the middle of the camp and try to take a bite out of Lee. I don't blame Lilly for not being able to handle something like that.

                                              • Mark was a reasonable guy, he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy going around stirring things up.

                                                Lilly had an opportunity to shoot that zombie that was attacking Lee. She could've yelled out to Lee to try to distance his head away so he doesn't get caught in the crossfire or throw the rifle at either Mark or Larry to shut it.

                                                Here was the perfect chance to put it down.
                                                Alt text

                                                You said being alert to threats makes a good watch, I agree but here, she was nowhere, even after the attack, her rifle seems to be missing when she regrouped with everyone else. No one expected a zombie to pop out in the middle of camp but you have to be on alert, couldn't she hear the noises, It felt like she was daydreaming through out the whole zombie attack.

                                                • I'd call this more of a game design thing. Not everyone could be visible. Kenny and Ben weren't either yet they were right there. They could've killed it too

                                                  • Kenny was probably tending to his wife and even if he did get there, there wasn't much he could've done and Ben is a coward, do you honestly think he would go to where a zombie is. Lilly had a weapon that could kill the zombie and she was much closer to it than Carley, Doug, Mark & Larry yet they responded to it.

                                                • Mark was a reasonable guy, he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy going around stirring things up.

                                                  Remember that time he told Larry what you had said about him in confidence? Or when he randomly blurted out the fact that they had a vet to random strangers they didn't know they could trust yet? Mark's a nice enough guy, but he seems to say what's on his mind most of the time without much regard for the implications.

                                                  but here, she was nowhere, even after the attack, her rifle seems to be missing when she regrouped with everyone else.

                                                  She is shown to be carrying her rifle when she ran up to Larry to calm him down right after the attack, She just puts it down when Ben started talking. It's possible she was taking aim but couldn't get a shot off.

                                                  • Mark was trying to stick up for Lee besides, Lee never told Mark to keep that to himself. When Mark blurts things out, he's blurts out things that happened, he doesn't make stuff up.

                                                    Lilly was on watch, she was closer to where the attack took place, you said being alert is a good sign of being on watch yet in that scene, she was no where, Carley/Doug & Larry/Mark responded to the threat and they were far away.

                                                    • Here's what Mark said: "The way Lilly worries about his health, I wouldn't be surprised if she's been skimming rations for him." That's speculation. I wouldn't call it "making stuff up" since he's not stating it as any kind of factual claim. He's just giving his opinion on what he thinks Lilly might be doing based on how much she worries about her dad. My point was that it's a false dichotomy to say that Mark is either factually stating that Lilly was skimming rations for Larry or that he was being intentionally misleading and stirring things up. He's a guy who likes to talk off the cuff.

                                                      Like I said, Lilly might have just been trying to get a shot off from where she was. Even if she was trying to respond to the threat, you wouldn't have seen her because it's not like she would have walked right up to the walker and taken the shot.

                                                      • But we didn't hear anything from her, the others responded to the threat and as I said, she could've threw her gun to Larry or Mark.

                                                        • Jesus Christ, man, we're still on this?

                                                          We didn't "hear" anything from her? What, is aiming a rifle supposed to make a sound? I'm not saying that that's definitely what she was doing, I'm just saying that we can't just dismiss the whole thing as "Lilly didn't do anything" when we didn't see everything.

                                                          What the hell would throwing her rifle to Larry or Mark help accomplish? You think Larry or Mark would have had a better shot than she would? I don't know about Larry but Mark missed a stationary bird on a tree after a good while of aiming. Besides, like I said before, that was no place for a long-ranged weapon. If it were, Carley wouldn't have had to walk right up to the walker to shoot it.

                                                          • Look man, no point responding if you're going to get annoyed. I'm sorry for the late response but I was busy.

                                                            I'm talking about her shouting something like "Walker", "Lee, get your head down so I can get a shot", "Mark, Carley/Doug, help Lee", "Dad stay back" or anything relating to the situation then we as the gamer knows that she was alert and was trying to do something as she is the watchmen.

                                                            What would throwing the rifle to Larry & Mark accomplish? Well for one thing they're already on ground so they can run up to the zombie and shoot it, Mark missed that stationary bird but I highly doubt that he would miss a large target up close.

                                                            • Oh no that wasn't annoyance, just an exaggerated observation on how long this has gone on for. This has been one of the more thought-provoking discussions I've had on here. I welcome a continuation. I was just being facetious.

                                                              Anyway, they obviously didn't include all of the audio that would have been in that scene. For instance I doubt Kenny and Duck would have been as quiet as they were after seeing Katjaa get attacked. There was not a peep from them at all during the attack. I get why you might think that she wasn't doing anything and that may be the case, but in my opinion, we didn't see enough to draw a conclusion.

                                                              • I don't know where Kenny or Duck were, Katjaa did run off after she was freed by Lee so she most likely ran to them but Lilly was the watchmen whose role was to protect the camp from danger, she was the leader and was also armed and was closer to the incident than Kenny & Duck and someone like that was absent from a dangerous crisis? we didn't hear any sound from her which leads me to believe that she was daydreaming while all that was happening.

                                                                • You're speaking as though Kenny were clear on the other side of the lot. He was sitting right next to the RV Lilly was on. Duck wasn't that far either. If either of them shouted anything, were should have heard them. But we heard nothing. No "KAT!" no "MOM!" no "WALKER!" no "JESUS CHRIST!" Nothing. So either they didn't react to seeing their wife/mom getting attacked and almost eaten by a zombie. Or not all the sounds were there.

                                                                  • Why would they shout "KAT" or "MOM" when Katjaa broke away from that Zombie?
                                                                    What were they supposed to do? Shout anyway to make their presence heard?
                                                                    Either Lilly was doing nothing or she heard nothing which makes her a bad watch.

                                                                    • Katjaa didn't break away immediately. They would have shouted those things as soon as they heard her scream. Does the fact that they didn't mean that they didn't respond to the threat or weren't concerned about Katjaa? No. Just like the fact that you didn't hear Lilly also does not mean that she did not respond to the threat.

                                                                      • She broke away after a couple of seconds and Kenny was behind the RV. I don't know what they were doing but I'm sure Katjaa ran to them after breaking free. Regardless, their job did not involve being alert for any danger now did it. She needed to shout to give orders, if others responded to a threat, why didn't the watchmen?

                                                                        • What orders would Lilly have needed to shout? Mark/Larry were already responding to the threat because Lee immediately calls out for their axe (interesting that he didn't call out for either Lilly's or Carley's guns). There was nothing important for her to say there.

                                                                          • I feel like we're going in circles with this. Something like "Lee, get your head down so I can get a shot" or "Mark/Dad catch this gun". Lee called out for the Axe because it was his Axe that they were using.

          • Lilly clearly is remorseful. She aimed for Ben. You see her shake her head in shock after it's happened. I'd say neither crime is worse than the other. Both did horrible things. The thing I find wrong though is how people let Lee off because he redeems himself through Clem whereas they call for Lilly's head the same way Larry wanted Lee killed. Lilly could redeem herself one day. Saying it's alright for Lee to be given the chance and not Lilly is wrong

            • Lilly's reaction was more like "Shit, I shot the wrong person", regardless she still intended to kill, if she was remorseful she could've said something like "I didn't mean to" plus she seemed to change her reaction as if she didn't give a damn what she's done when she pulled a Grand Theft Auto on the RV. Plus, was she remorseful with Carley? Lee killed a guy in a fight by accident and he had a reason to be pissed off plus we got to know him along the way and the way he cared for a little girl that he just met, in the time we got to know Lilly she was nothing but a selfish, unreasonable, angry, lazy, loud mouthed hypocrite that didn't give a damn about anyone but herself and her douche-bag bully of a dad who made a bad decision and then goes onto to murder the sweetest, kindest, useful member of the group that cared about others including her with no reason and if that's not bad enough, she ends up leaving the group for dead which shows she never cared about anyone, those actions make her a villain, there's no redemption with the choices she made. We don't know anything about the State Senator but the fact that he was sleeping with a married woman indicates that he must've been a sleazebag. That's why people are more than willing to let Lee off the hook, he never intended to kill the senator, Lilly on the other hand did and not to mention, her crime is a lot worse than Lee's. What I fail to understand is why do some people see Lilly as a good person after all she's done?

              • I think she did say she didn't mean to. I'd avoid saying it in situations like that though. It's like trying to squeeze your way out of it. We can't say if her reaction was that kind of shock. We don't know if Lee's situation was an accident or not. In the time we met Lilly she was good to my Lee because I wasn't on Kenny's side. Lilly saved my Lee's life, looked afterClem when Lee wasn't there, apologised for her dad's actions and words, etc. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt after what Kenny did to her dad and the constant arguments. She saved the entire group from the bandits too. I wouldn't call Carley the sweetest (Clem) or most useful but to each their own. I agree it was horrible. Fleeing for your life is justifiable though. It was kind of obvious something bad was going to happen to her if she stayed. Yes the senator was a sleaze but it doesn't justify murder. Lilly issomeone who made mistakes to me. Terrible mistakes but she's no Governor, Negan, St John or Hunter. There's redemption possible for her. If she doesn't take her chance for redemption I'll call her an utter moron

                • She didn't mean to what? Kill someone? She still intended to take someone's life away. Lee stated to Carley it was an accident, there's no reason for him to lie because she already knew. Whether you were on Lilly's side or not, she's still a bitch that pulls the same stunts that makes her the degenerate that she really is. You could say she saved the group but then again, it was her ignorance that still kept them at an unstable motel to begin with. Here's why I see Carley as a valuable member, she saved you when you first arrive in Macon, saved you again from the restroom zombie, assisted and helped you discover the the motor inn, constantly assists you, saved you from the Zombie Teacher/Travis, went back and rescued you and the group from the St Johns, saved you from Andy St John by shooting him in the ear, helped fend off zombies invading the motor inn while Lilly was hiding in the balcony and why I think she's the sweetest adult in the group, other than Clementine, she speaks to you in kindness, never says a bad word about you, doesn't give you attitude and refuses food from you unless you gave Clem some because she was looking out for a child she hardly knew, it's a shame you don't see her that way. I wouldn't call that fleeing for your life, she didn't seem scared at all and this is the same group that wouldn't kill the cannibals and if they wanted to kill her, they would've killed her on the spot but instead they kindly take her with, if she wanted to leave without making her self look like a backstabbing coward then run on foot, I'm sure the group wont waste their time chasing her down but instead she takes the one transport vehicle that she never fixed, leaving the group vulnerable and showing no sign of regret. The one thing she has in Common with The Governor, Negan, Hunters & the St Johns is that they murder for no reason, they have as much chance at redemption as Lilly.

                  • I was replying to you saying she didn't even say she didn't mean. She isn't the same atall, she varies depending on how you are to her. You can choose to say the Motel is a good idea or not so that is an opinion. Carley is valuable, no argument there. Lilly seemed plenty scared, the look on her face and things she said screamed it to me. Accident or not Lee killed someone. Like you said, they aren't coming back (The same way at least) so his murder is still murder

                    • People keep saying Lilly's different due to the choices you make, the Lilly you had, did she have your back? was angry with her dad for trying to kill you? didn't kill an innocent person you were friends with? and didn't leave you and Clementine for dead by taking the RV? If not then me and you had the same Lilly. When she took the RV, she had a cold blank expression, before that she looked all sad and nervous then changed it all of a sudden, why is that? It's because she was pretending. What Lee did was Manslaughter, the only thing that it has in common with Murder is that both result in taking away a life.

                      • Lilly saved my Lee from Danny when Kenny ran. She looked after Clem when I looked for Katjaa. She shot Andy when he almost killed my Lee. I don't know about pretending, the blank expression is called shock. Lee took someone's life with the intent to hurt them. He wanted to hurt them, he did so badly enough theywere killed. However you put it that's wrong. He probably wished it upon the guy when he saw him and his wife together too. The only difference is he didn't plan to go that far

                        • Kenny saved my Lee from Danny while Lilly did nothing but I'm not putting that into consideration because that action can be changed. All she did was watch Clem and that's it, I wouldn't say that's taking care of her.

                          Here's her stealing the RV
                          Alt text

                          This is her when she killed Carley/Doug

                          Alt text

                          Does that look like someone that regrets her actions, someone that looks shocked? That looks like someone that doesn't care what she did or is about to do.

                          This is her apprehended

                          Alt text

                          It's funny how she looks sad yet she immediately changes her expression after being freed to rob the RV. It's an act just so you go easy on her.

                          Lee killed a guy in a fight by accident, he wanted to hurt the guy but not kill him. Lilly killed an innocent person on purpose, she wanted to end someone's life. Wanting someone dead and killing them are two different things, is Hershel Greene responsible for Kenny being lost to the herd as he wanted him dead? and we don't know if Lee wanted the senator dead. Lee didn't plan to go that far but Lilly did.

                          • It's funny how she looks sad yet she immediately changes her expression after being freed to rob the RV. It's an act just so you go easy on her.

                            It's not really immediate; you were driving for a while before you reached the train. The look she gives while being apprehended could still be an act or it could be genuine self-loathing. We don't know.

                            Lee didn't plan to go that far but Lilly did.

                            Lilly planned to kill Ben from the get-go but it was unclear to me whether or not she planned to kill Carley. She certainly wanted her gone and out of the group, but it really did seem like she only decided to shoot Carley in an outburst of anger.

                            While I do think there are differences in what Lee and Lilly did, at least in the case with Carley, both Lee and Lilly ultimately still killed someone in a fit of anger. Lee didn't have a gun and Lilly did and it's unclear what would have happened if the reverse were true, but in the end, anger was what motivated the killing. I don't think either was premeditated.

                            Now, in order to be forgiven for such a crime, it seems to me that the person needs to demonstrate 2 things: a genuine regret for what he or she did and an indication that he or she would not be likely to commit the crime in the future. To me it doesn't really seem like either of them have really demonstrated those things. Lee still lashes out in anger all the time and Lilly was still mentally unstable. If Lee had done what he did while he was in my survival group, I would kick him out just as I did Lilly.

                            But even though Lee can't be specifically forgiven for his crime, I would still say that he can redeem himself by saving Clementine. It doesn't wash away his old sins, but it does balance them out. Theoretically, I could see Lilly doing something similar. Given her nature and the fact that it's now even further into the apocalypse, I sure as hell wouldn't bet on it. But it's possible for her to redeem herself.

                          • Wanting to hurt someone then killing them because of it isn't excuse worthy to me. It means you went too far. Did Kenny save your Lee from Andy too? I can't remember it properly but I'm assuming he did. They both save Lee thrice thrice in two episodes. Lilly looked out for Clem when Lee wasn't at the Motor Inn or was busy, seen in Jolene's video, (I know this is minor but she also gave her hair bobbles, showing she cared about her at least). I don't know if you can honestly tell through images. I played Ep3 recently and she looked mortified. Try these though Alt text This Alt text This Alt text

                            • Like I said, did Lee ever express that he wanted the Senator dead?
                              Kenny never saved my Lee because he was shot in the arm but Lilly never saved my Lee either. You said I was assuming but come on, how do we know that she looked after Clem?
                              Jolene's video of her being nice to Clem and giving her hair bobbles doesn't mean she cared about her since she had the heart to abandon her, the St Johns were nice to Clem and built her that tree swing, does that mean they cared?

                              Those images, if she had made that face after killing her victim and before being apprehended then yeah, maybe she feels some sort of guilt but she didn't.

                              That first Image looks like she was taking into account that Lee has hold of her as she was looking where his hand was.

                              The third image she realized that she can't boss Lee around anymore.

                              The Second image she comes to realize that she lost power and gives a puppy dog eyes in the hopes you'll go easy on her.

                              You want to know how I came up with that analysis, it's because of her reaction to stealing the RV. I wanted to find an image of her tied up but couldn't but she was giving a sad expression the whole way, when you turn to pick up the pencil and then turn around, she's standing there with a blank expression then you realize you've just been tricked and anything nice she said previously was bullshit and that she was pretending just to get on your good side.

                              • You assume too much. They could be anything from blank shock to survival. She's obviously scared ofstaying there especially with how Kenny was acting (I don't blame him). Imagine if Duck had been killed while Lilly was still there. What could Kenny's outlet have been?

                                • You call that shock? Lilly had a blank emotionless expression. And Lilly was scared? She didn't look scared when she stole the RV and as I said previously, if she wanted to leave then leave on foot instead of taking the one vehicle that she never fixed and leaving people you're supposed to protect stranded. Besides, Duck didn't die when Lilly was there so that rules her excuse of being scared of Kenny out. Kenny wanted to leave her, he didn't say anything about executing Lilly or give any indication to it.

                                  • I agree. The blank expression she had when stealing the RV says to me "I've made my decision. You're not keeping me here." That was the look of pure survival, not shock. But that doesn't necessarily mean that her reaction to killing Carley/Doug was all just an act. She could have been (and, in my opinion, seemed to be) genuinely in shock after what she did. But then over the course of the RV ride she could have switched back to survival mode and decided that since she'd already burned all her bridges with Lee's group by that point, she might as well do whatever she needs to do to give herself the best chance of survival. Stealing the RV was a cold, calculated thing to do and she knows it.

                                    That being said, the last thing she says to Lee before taking the RV is "Sorry Lee. I really am." She had absolutely no reason to say that if she didn't mean it. It doesn't at all make what she's doing or what she did any better, but it does show that there is at the very least a small spark of remorse there. As of now, Lilly's on the same shit-list as Vernon in my book. They've committed severe acts of betrayal and it's going to take a whole lot of misery and character growth for me to be able to forgive them (and I mean a FUCKTON). But it's possible. And that kind of redemption is something that I think Telltale can pull off if they choose to go in that direction.

                                  • Yes. Shock can lead to blank expression. It's kind of the point. I said she was probably nervous for when he turned. Kenny became increasingly angry so it'd make sense for Lilly to be nervous he'd take it out on her

                                    • She didn't seem to be affected at what she has done and she tried justifying it afterwards. And as I said, if she was so scared then leave on foot without taking the one transport vehicle that she considered a waste of time as the group that consisted of two kids who needed it more than her, if she ever cared and felt remorseful as you claim she did then that's the least she can do after the pain and fear she caused them and broke them by taking away the life of a likeable valuable group member that would've contributed to their survival. I doubt Kenny at that time would give a damn and wouldn't bother chasing after her. But instead, she robs them showing no sign of regret and leaves them stranded and giving the vibe "Fuck Them". And one thing, did she even know that Duck was bit?

                                      • I don't know. People do things they regret so even if they care aboutthe people involved, sometimes they can't bring themselves to face them. Good point though. The reason I'm assuming she knew about Duck is because of how quiet the RV was toward the train so she probably heard something

                                        • The thing with her, she does one bad thing and when given kindness by taking her with you instead of leaving her out in the dark, she does another bad thing and punishing the likes of Clementine, Lee(Depending), Katjaa & Duck by taking the only reliable vehicle when she's the one that messed up and in the wrong. She even lies about wanting you to come with her. Kenny & Katjaa were keeping it private and told Lee in strict confidence who he then told Clementine and Ben was busy watching Lilly at the back of the RV, I think he only found out after getting off the RV, Lee fell a sleep and Clementine was too scared of Lilly.

                                        • The thing with her, she does one bad thing and when given kindness by taking her with you instead of leaving her out in the dark, she does another bad thing and punishing the likes of Clementine, Lee(Depending), Katjaa & Duck by taking the only reliable vehicle when she's the one that messed up and in the wrong. She even lies about wanting you to come with her. Kenny & Katjaa were keeping it private and told Lee in strict confidence who he then told Clementine and Ben was busy watching Lilly at the back of the RV, I think he only found out after getting off the RV, Lee fell a sleep and Clementine was too scared of Lilly.

                                        • The thing with her is that she does one bad thing and when given kindness by taking her with you instead of leaving her out in the dark, she does another bad thing and punishing the likes of Clementine, Lee(Depending), Katjaa & Duck by taking the only reliable vehicle when she's the one that messed up and in the wrong. She even lies about wanting you to come with her. Kenny & Katjaa were keeping it private and told Lee in strict confidence who he then told Clementine and Ben was busy watching Lilly at the back of the RV, I think he only found out after getting off the RV, Lee fell a sleep and Clementine was too scared of Lilly.

              • I agree 100% with you.
                Lee showed remorse for what happened to the jackass sleeping with his wife.
                Kenny showed remorse after killing Larry, and excepts responsibility for it.
                If Lee mentions that Kenny feels like he killed Herschel's son, Kenny reveals himself to be heart broken over what happen to the boy, and reveals that it's because of that he believes Duck was bitten.
                And if Ben survived Crawford, Kenny goes down to try to save him, even though Ben inadvertently caused the deaths of his wife and child.

                Lilly however, showed absolutely no remorse for killing Carly.
                Even before that, when Larry wanted to kill a supposedly bitten Duck, Lilly, although she didn't go along with it, she also didn't show any objections either.
                And when Lee Kenny and Mark brought Ben and his injured friend back to the mortar inn, Lilly instantly wanted to get rid of them, not caring that one of them was severely injured.

                It was for those reasons, I had Lee leave her ass on the side of the road.
                That kind of person is dangerous, and if they've killed before, they won't hesitate to kill again.

                • No remorse? Alright then

                  • Yes, no remorse. After she shot Carley, what was the first thing she did? Say how sorry she was? No, she said that Carley DESERVED it, and that she didn't do anything wrong. At the last second, she betrayed Lee to try and save herself.

                    I sincerely hope that she died.

                    That being said, in the matter of choice, you're partially right. Clem should have the choice to forgive Lilly. Personally, I don't think I'll ever be able to forgive her, but it should be an option.

                    • I'd rather any interesting characters come back than be killed already. I think she showed remorse in Doug's. Carley's I'm not sure about as I haven't played through fully with her yet. It's wrong what she said about Carley but hopefully she didn't mean a word of it. If she does and she comes back, given the options I'd forgive her in Doug's playthrough and not forgive her in Carley's.

                      • I played through with Doug as well. Maybe she was sorry that she killed Doug, but if she killed Ben, her intended target, then she once more would not have felt an ounce of remorse. Doug only died because she was trying to kill Ben. She still deserved it.

                        Also, she still betrayed Lee. Oh, and if Lee DOES let her stay with them, she says that she'll let Lee come with her, but then, tells him to go get clementine, which turns out to be an excuse so that she can leave on her own. So she betrays him AGAIN in that scenario.

                        Either, I don't think I'd ever be able to forgive her, but sure, if you and others can, then I agree with you that there should be the option.

                        • I'm not at all saying it was right. Just that I wouldn't blame her for running from the group after that. She could've even rethought it and realised Lee could tell Kenny and keep her there. The thumbs down are unnecessary though. They show just how immature some people are. I know what Lilly does is horrible and am only saying I'd like it to be a choice to forget it or condemn her. I won't forgive her either. Just some other choice like "I won't bring that up if you don't. Keep your emotions in control this time and we leave it in the past." if she seems different in S2 at all

                          • I agree with you, but thumbs down aren't actually immature. I don't get why people on this forum have a problem with them. They're there to show if people agree or disagree. If people disagree, then they thumbs down. It's not like they're flagging your comment.

                            • True. I'd just rather everyone chip in I suppose. Opinions are welcome so I'd just like to know why anyone would dislike a neutral POV. Agree though, I was in a silly mood yesterday

                              • Personally, I hope it's Kenny who comes back in season 2.
                                Kenny was a good and loyal man!
                                He tried to help peple, even when it was difficult.

                                Case in point, after Kenny, Lee and Mark found Ben and his friend and teacher in the woods, Kenny helped bring Ben's and his gut-shot friend back to the motor inn.
                                And as far as his being loyal, since My Lee and Kenny were best friends, when Clementine went missing, Kenny immediately volunteered to help Lee find her, refusing to let Lee go alone, and further stating Lee and Clementine were the only family he had left.

                                With all that said, I sincerely hope that Kenny will survive to season 2.

      • haha, I'm the same with Kenny.

        I guess Telltale won't be able to please everyone.

  • The thing is, the way that Clementine says those words with completely and utter shock makes me believe that she probably witnessed their death.

  • I for one really hope it's not Kenny. Lee saw him die (at least when he sacrificed himself for Ben), that's why when Christa and Omid ask him about Kenny, he just shakes his head. LEE SAW HIM GET EATEN. So it would be disgusting fan service if they bring him back with some half-assed explanation as an excuse. Maybe there could be a chance of him surviving if you got the scene with him in the hole saving Christa, but then they would have to have different characters appearing for different players according to their past choices in the first game, and I don't think they are going to take the time to create something like that. Lilly is a much more obvious answer, since the outcome for her is the same for all players.

    • Lee didn't watch it. Or we'd know for sure. Ambiguous

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      fusedmass BANNED

      Actually they never see Kenny die. He jumped in a hole. You hear gun shots. If you played Lee without Ben. He drops the walkie into the hole. Kenny jumps in after it. Then you hear zombies. After that a couple of gunshots. It could actually be Kenny. To be honest. It could also be Lilly. It's either one of them.

      I don't think it's Ben, you had the choice to drop him in tower. I think its Lilly or Kenny. Because you never actually see them die.

    • You have no definitive proof Lee ever saw Kenny die, and if I recall correctly there is an option to suggest to Omid and Christa that Kenny may have lived if he tries to save Ben. Telltale never showed him die for a reason.

    • Lee did not see Kenny die. Play it again and you will see that Kenny runs off screen.

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    fusedmass BANNED



  • However, we all saw the same scene. Not everyone implied murder by leaving Lilly on the road, and not everyone left Lilly on the road, so why would we all get the scene, if it has no relevance? While I think Lilly returning is plausible, I simply don't believe it will be in this scenario.

  • Honestly seems more likely to be Lilly then Kenny just from Clementine's reaction.

    Cue more Kenny-baiting in episode 3's teaser... and then more cliffhangers making you think that maybe Kenny will appear in EP4.

  • Personally, I think it would be more interesting if Lilly came back. Clem could have to choose between forgiving her of past crimes or holding onto grudges.

    Not a Kenny hater.

  • Stop arguing over this, we'll know when Telltale reveals it, come on. =/

    • I can imagine threads like this still being made after EP2 comes out.

      • ...and after we all finish Season 2: "KENNY CONFIRMED IN SEASON 3!!!!!!11111" ;)

        • That is the kind of behavior that is not helping this situation. Kenny may come back in season two, in fact he most likely will, along with the other group members from season one that were never shown to die(Not sure about Molly).

          Telltale made those characters not die for a reason. It'd be extremely mean to tease the Kenny fans so much then not have him back alive in some way, and I really don't think they would do that.

      • I'm fine with discussion, but insulting each other over a character in a game when no one knows who is right at the moment is just silly. Telltale will prove one side right, and one side wrong. Either Kenny will return in this season or he won't. I don't think it's really worth all this arguing, it's not like the arguments are going to change Telltale's mind.

  • Well, I don't know. It's a possibilty. But I still think it's Christa.

  • It will either be Kenny or Lily.

    And for the record I think Kenny and Lily are both jerks. Lily lost her head and murdered someone and Kenny did a lot of dickish things too, like leaving you behind several times, smashing a salt lick on a mans face, being a hypocrite, showing no freaking gratitude, wanting a girl to get eaten alive slowly to give you more time for supplies, wanting you to drop a teenage boy to his death etc etc etc.

    I really have no idea why Kenny is worshipped the way he is on here.

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